Chris & Julie Petersen's Genealogy

Johann Jakob Römer

Female 1681 - 1756  (74 years)


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  • Name Johann Jakob Römer 
    Born 13 Nov 1681  Geisenbach, Mörlenbach, Bergstraße, Hessen, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Gender Female 
    Died 1756  Schwetzingen, Rhein-Neckar-Kreis, Baden-Württemberg, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Person ID I2718  Petersen-de Lanskoy
    Last Modified 27 May 2021 

    Father Hans Adam Römer,   d. 21 Mar 1730, Geisenbach, Mörlenbach, Heppenheim, Hessen, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Mother Margaretha Reinig,   c. 23 Nov 1651, Birkenau, Heppenheim, Hessen, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 3 Feb 1719, Geisenbach, Mörlenbach, Heppenheim, Hessen, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 67 years) 
    Married 20 Jan 1671  Geisenbach, Mörlenbach, Heppenheim, Hessen, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Family ID F1076  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Family Anna Katerina Reinig,   b. Bef 1687, Schimbach, Reisin, Birkenau, Bergstraße, Hessen, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. of Schwetzingen, Rhein-Neckar-Kreis, Baden-Württemberg, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Married 17 Nov 1705  Schimbach, Reisin, Birkenau, Bergstraße, Hessen, Germany Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Last Modified 28 May 2021 
    Family ID F1508  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Notes 
    • RESEARCH_NOTES:
      1. FHL book 943.D2dg, vol. 175, "Deutsches Geschlechtebuch/Hessisches Geschlechterbuch," by Hermann Thutewohl, (1977), pp. 252-255, provides a study of Hessian Römers which includes our American branch as follows. The same material is found in the "Hessian Lineage Book," vol. 20, 1977, publisher CA Starke, Limburg an der Lahn. The book is in German with the translation to English courtesy of Rose Green. Dates are European style (day - month - year). Symbols: * = birth/christening; oo = married; + = death. The numbering system is per the book. The previous generation of which Johann Jakob Römer is a child is shown in the book for which I report in a separate note:
      "VIc. Johann Jakob Römer, * Geisenbach 13 Nov 1681, + Schwetzingen 1756. Was a citizen (Bürger) in Weinheim 1721, after 1729 moved to the Jesuitenhof in Schwetzingen, oo Anna Katharina Reinig from Schimbach. Children 1-4 born in Schimbach, 5-10 in Weinheim:
      1. Johann Jakob, * 15 Mar 1707, see VIId
      2. Johann Nikolaus, * 19 Feb 1709, + in the same place 13 Apr 1709
      3. Johannes, * 26 Oct 1710, see VIIe
      4. Anna Christina, * about 1712, +? Was a godmother in Ober Mumbach in 1740
      5. Johann Nicolaus, * 12 Jan 1714, see VIIf
      6. Anna Maria, * 28 Jun 1716, + in the same place before 1744
      7. Anna Margarethe, * 9 Mar 1719, + in the same place bef 1744
      8. Johann Michael, * 21 Oct 1721, see VIIg
      9. Katharine Rosine, * 18 Aug 1724, + in the same place as a child
      10. Anna Katharina, * 20 Jan 1729, oo Georg Peter Beutell of Weinheim."
      Note that the book continues down a few generations in great detail for the lines of the children above with the notes "see VIId-VIIg."

      2. The correct name for this individual's father and the make up of siblings is uncertain and conflicted. The names Hans Peter or Johann appear erroneous and Hans Adam seems to be the best option. Family researcher Rose Green has pioneered and led the research into this question. I quote first the two published German sources, then Rose's appraisal of the validity of the information these sources present, and then finally some comments on the correct father:
      A. Published German Sources:
      a. "DGB" = FHL book 943.D2dg, vol. 175, "Deutsches Geschlechtebuch/Hessisches Geschlechterbuch," by Hermann Thutewohl, (1977), pp. 252-255, provides a study of Hessian Römers which includes our American branch as follows. The same material is found in the "Hessian Lineage Book," vol. 20, 1977, publisher of CA Starke, Limburg an der Lahn. (Translation courtesy of Rose Green.) The book is German which I translate to English. Dates are European style day - month - year. Symbols: * = birth/christening; oo = married; + = death. The numbering system is per the book which I place in [brackets] for clarity:
      [Vb] Hans Peter Römer, * ... 11. 7. 1642, + Geisenbach 21. 3. 1730, bur. Weinheim 23. 3. 1730; named "the old Römer," owner of a "Hof" (farm/land with buildings) in Geisenbach; oo ... 20. 1. 1671 Margarethe Reinig, * ..., + Geisenbach 3. 2. 1719. Children born in Geisenbach:
      1. Anna, * (calculated) 1671, + ..., Godmother on 22. 1. 1685.
      2. Margarethe, * (calculated) 1673, + ..., oo ... Johann Nikolaus Schütz from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ...
      3. Maria Margarethe, * 18. 11. 1674, + ..., Godmother on 10. 11. 1691; oo ... Hans Nikolaus Schuh from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ...
      4. Johannes, * 10. 1. 1678, [s. VIb]
      5. Johann Jakob, * 13. 11. 1681, [s. VIc, Schwetzinger main branch]
      6. Eva, * 7. 2. 1685, + ...
      7. Eva Elisabeth, * 8. 5. 1687, + ...
      8. Anna Barbara, * 6. 5. 1688, + ...; oo ... 17. 11. 1705 ... moved to Schimbach.
      9. Gertrud, * 26. 5. 1690, + ... 1758; oo ... Johann Jakob Brecht from Ober Mumbach, * ..., + ...
      b. "FM" = The book "Familienbuch Mörlenbach," by Dr. Otto Wagner, 1994:
      - 2857 m. vor 1670 Joh. Römer, Geisenbach, bei ihm dient 1683 Jakob Drϋber, 1721 Zeuge fϋr Verkauf von 1 1/2 Huben [383a] an [2669], u Anna N.N. Kdr.: (viell.)
      - Margarete, m. vor 1692 [3365†]
      - Anna, 1685 Pate [b. 1695]
      - Anna Margarete, 1683 Pate [1695], m. Ober-Absteinach 2.2.1695 Peter Helfrich of Unter-Absteinach.
      - Joh. Jakob, b. 13.11.1681, m. 17.11.1705 Kath.
      - Joh. Adam, m. Ober-Absteinach 7.6.1706 Elis.
      - Eva, *7.2.1685
      - Eva Elis., b. Vöckelsbach ~~luth. Birkenau 5./12.5.1687
      B. Rose Green's comments and analysis of the above two records with her own research into the church records of our Geisenbach branch of the Roemer family with Johannes Roemer, b. 1678, as a child. She prefaces her comments on the children by saying: "The only way to figure this out is to look at the primary sources -- making a decision based on secondary information that may or may not be correct isn't going to really solve the problem. I believe, without having the records right in front of me, that some individuals were discovered via marriage records and then other people discovered the same individuals via christening records. Even though the family lived in one concentrated area, the records are scattered through several different church books (i.e. geographically) and across more than one religion. The "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" is going to look primarily at Catholic records, since Moerlenbach is Catholic. The DGB seems to use both Lutheran records and some land records (the second of which I don't have access to). So I do think that at least one child is perhaps duplicated in this family. But we want to be very, very careful to make sure we don't eliminate a real person, either. But I do think that Maria Margaretha and Margaretha are the same person."
      a. Rose's comments regarding the DGB with some rearranging in the order of children:
      - Parents: Hans (Adam) Römer m. Margaretha Reinig in Geisenbach with children as follows. The first five children are from the Wald-Michelbach church records (Lutheran) and are certain:
      1. Maria Margaretha, b. 18 Nov 1674, daughter of Hans Remer and Margaretha (godmother Margaretha wife of Hans Jorg Rehm, smith of Birkenau). 2. Johannes Remi, b. 10 Jan 1678, son of Hanss Remi (Römer) of Geisenbach, and wife Margaretha. Godfather was Hans Reinig, Wilhelm Reinig's son of Geisenbach (i.e. the uncle). 3. Johann Jakob Rheme, b. 13 Nov 1681, son of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha his wife. Godfather was Hans Jacob Erhardt/Erhanger/Erhanyer? of Geisenbach (the name is extremely difficult to read). 4. Eva Rheme, b. 7 Feb 1685, daughter of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva, wife or daughter of Niclaus Erhardt of Geisenbach. 5. Eva Elisabeth Rheme, b. 8 May 1687, daughter of Hans Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva the ? of Nicolaus Reinig of Geisenbach. [See note below about the confusion in birthdates of 5 or 8 May.]
      - Rose's comments of the other children that show up in the DGB:
      6. Anna, abt 1671 (DGB). This lists her as a godmother on 22 Jan 1685. I presume she is named as the daughter of Hans Roemer of Geisenbach here; I would like to see the record for myself (the DGB however does not say where and for whom she was a godmother.) 7. Margarethe, b. abt 1673, married to Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach, son of Hans Nikolaus Schütz of Geisenbach, about 1692 and had three children whose births are recorded in the Lutheran church book of Wald-Michelbach for Birkenau as well as the Familienbuch Moerlenbach. Her son was godfather to Johann Michael Roemer of Birkenau (the son of Johannes Roemer). Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach was godfather to another of Johannes Roemer's children, Johann Nikolaus (1712). The record explicitly says that this man is the brother-in-law of Johannes Roemer. So yes, I believe this one! Most likely the same as #1 above. 8. Maria Margarethe, b. 18 Nov 1674, was a godmother on 10 Nov 1691 (where? DGB doesn't list it), and married "Hans Nikolaus Schuh of Geisenbach." She looks awfully like #7 to me. In a place with a population of less than 100 people, are there really two different individuals named Hans Nikolaus Schuh and Hans Nikolaus Schütz, both married to Margaretha Romer? Most likely the same as #1 and #7. 9. Anna Barbara, b. 6 May 1688 (from DGB): this looks awfully like the girl born in Gras-Ellenbach to Hans and Catharina Romer. 10. Gertrud, b. 26 May 1690, married Johann Jacob Brecht of Ober Mumbach (according to the DGB). I'm not saying this can't be her, but I didn't see a Gertrud in the book. b. Comments regarding on the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna. Moerlenbach is adjacent to Birkenau and was largely Catholic; however, both Lutherans and people from the Birkenau parish wandered over there, and so some of them show up in their records too. As you can see, there is some overlap with the HGB, but they aren't completely congruent. The children this book lists are as such: 1. Yes: Margaretha, married bef 1692 (this would be the one who married Joh. Nikolaus Schutz; so far, so good). 2. Yes: Anna, a godmother in 1685 (same as above; would like to see this, but if they are naming her as the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach, then I'm cool with that. I just would like to know who she is being godmother to, as those often happen among close family members.) 3. Maybe: Anna Margaretha, godmother in 1683 (to whom, and where?); married Peter Helferich of Unter-Abtsteinach on 2 Feb 1695 in Ober-Abtsteinach. (That is a Catholic place.) This should be independently verified in the original marriage record (i.e. that she is the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach in specific), since I didn't find her in the birth records. Another child in this family, Johannes, had a second wife was also a Helferich, and also Catholic. 4. Yes: Johann Jakob, b. 13 Nov 1681. According to the Moerlenbach book, he married Anna Katerina Reinig of Schimbach on 17 Nov 1705 in Schimbach, and had a number of children, the first ones in Schimbach and later ones in Schwetzingen. Yes, this son is correct. 5. No: Joh. Adam, married 7 Jun 1706 Elisabeth daughter of Adam Heckman in Ober-Abtsteinach (Catholic). Hmm ... Sorry, I didn't see that person in Geisenbach. Perhaps they are confusing him with the one born in Schönmattenwag in 1678? There are so many people running around with this same name in a small area, but definitely not in Geisenbach. 6. Yes: Eva, b. 7 Feb 1685. Yes, this is correct. 7. Yes: Eva Elisabeth, b. 5 May 1687. Yes, she is in the church record, too, although it is Wald-Michelbach (with village Geisenbach) that she appears. I don't know why the FM says that she was born in Voelkelsbach and christened 12 May 1687 in Birkenau. The date on the church record is very difficult to read, and perhaps it really is 5 and not 8. I see that she was christened the 12th, but the actual record says nothing about Voekelsbach.
      C. Rose's comments as to who is the correct father of our Roemer family of Geisenbach and of his marriage:
      a. "I did have a chance to look at the Birkenau film again, but unfortunately I didn't find anything new on it. I also didn't find any other suggestions to explain the Hans Peter Roemer shown in DGB. Seriously, in all the records I see, he is not the father in this family. He's either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer. I've been to Geisenbach -- there are three houses and one of them is new since the 1600s. There is zero mention of Hans Peter Roemer in Geisenbach in this time period in the church records. I think that the only way to solve this problem is to access some land or court or civil records, but they are not on microfilm. Maybe if I live there again, I'll have a look; I just don't know how to get at something like that from here, or even what exactly it is I need."
      b. "Regarding the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna."
      c. The DGB also lists a specific marriage date for him, which if found would likely give more information about him -- but this church record cannot be found (i.e. the parish records for marriages as they presently stand begin in 1671 after the supposed marriage date). The wife's maiden name of Reinig, however, appears to be accurate, as Wilhelm Reinig of Geisenbach does indeed have a daughter Margareta of the right age, and other children of Reinig serve as godparents to Hans (?) Roemer's children.
      d. I have doubts about the name of Johannes Roemer's father. The parents listed in Familysearch as of May 2015 (apparently based on the DGB info) are Hans Peter Roemer and Margaretha Reinig. When I went to verify this in the actual primary documents, I could not. The father listed in the birth entries of Johannes and his siblings is consistently either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer (with spelling variations on the last name; spelling didn't matter as much in the 1600s as in the 2010s). For Johann Jacob, Johannes's brother, the priest started to write someone else's name, then crossed it out and wrote Hans Adam. Eva's father is also listed as Hans Adam. There were two other Hans Adam Roemers bearing children in the parish at this time as well, which meant that delineation had to be clear in the records. One is having children at the same time in Schlierbach (another village in the same parish) -- meanwhile, our family is living in Geisenbach. I suppose it's *possible* that the priest mis-wrote the name--twice. But at the same time, this is the primary document there. I could find no trace of existing marriage records for this time and place, either microfilmed by the LDS church or otherwise, which is too bad, since it would clear up the problem easily. Possible explanations for this discrepancy: i. The pastor got confused and wrote down Hans Adam because there were so many of them, when really he was thinking of a different name. ii. The DGB data is based on land/court/occupational records instead of church records, and there were either errors in these records, or the researcher made some inaccurate assumptions. iii. I found a birth entry for a Hans Peter Roemer in the Birkenau parish record which could, by a bit of a stretch, fit in the right generation to be father to Johannes. Perhaps the researcher wanted to make this fit, so the supposition was made. However, there is also the record of the birth of a Hans Adam Roemer in the Waldmichelbach records for an even better age fit. (Both parishes covered the Geisenbach and Mengelbach areas.) Who knows which of the three Hans Adams it was. iv. There really is a marriage record squirreled away in an archive somewhere that no one (not even the historians writing about family records in Birkenau today) know about.
      e. In reviewing the DGB for the Ober Mengelbach Branch of Römers, we do find this family grouping with an Adam Römer who the right age to possibly be the Hans Adam Römer we are seeking. DGB provides no other information on him except for the birth date of 21 Jan 1646. Linking him for now would be premature without further corroborating evidence, but the information from DGB is as follows [see the notes of the earliest Römer in my database for the full DGB abstract]:
      ". Hans Römer, *Ober Mengelbach about 1620, + in the same place before 1695, mayor (Schultheiß), and owner of the Koch farm in Ober Mengelbach, oo Katharina (Cadel?), * (unknown), +20 Feb 1695 Ober Mengelbach. Children, born in Ober Mengelbach:
      1. Adam, *21 Jan 1646, + unknown
      2. Margaretha, *14 Aug 1648, + unknown
      3. Johann Michael, * 1657, see VIa"
      D. Rose's comments on three of the children: "Some of these children may be one and the same person. We have an Anna, a Margaretha, and an Anna Margaretha. Anna Margaretha and Margaretha can't be the same person as they are married to different people at the same time. I suppose there's a chance that Anna and Anna Margaretha are the same person, but they may still be three distinct individuals."