Chris & Julie Petersen's Genealogy
Notes
Matches 4,751 to 4,800 of 7,522
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| 4751 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The book: "A History of Monmouth and Ocean Counties, Embracing a Genealogical Record, Etc.," by Edwin Salter, published 1890, p. lxiv: "Winner, Winnow - John Winnow's (or Winner's) house is named in a survey 1790 between North and Middle branches Forked River on main road from Goodluck to Egg Harbor. Jonathan Winer lived at same place at a little later date. Jonathan was m. to Sarah Predmore, July 28, 1800. His dau. or sister Mary m. Samuel Worden, who d. in 1812; she d. in 1828 a. 59 years. [George] King Winner of Toms River, a coasting captain, went West, probably to San Francisco, about forty years ago." 2. Ancestry.com 12 Sep 2002 database ":2078748" indicates Samuel is the fifth of a long line of Samuel Wordens or Werdens. Parents are Samuel Worden of Goodluck and Rebecca Chamberlain of Shrewsbury, NJ. They list a son by the name of Charles Worden, b. 28 Dec 1796 in New Jersey and d. 19 Sep 1881 and he married Hanna Cramner 19 Nov 1819. 3. Ancestry.com 12 Sep 2002 database "ivey" indicates the following children all presumably born in NJ: Albert, b. 16 Sep 1795, d. 22 May 1869, m. Levina or Lavinia Headley 22 May 1816. May have other wives as well: Margaret, Abigail, Rebecca Coward. Charles, b. 28 Dec 1796, d. 19 Sep 1881/3 in Wellington, Sumner, Kansas, m. Hannah Cramner or Cramer 11 Nov 1819/22 in Forked River, Monmouth, New Jersey. Elizabeth, b. 1799? Joshua, b. 1 Oct 1801, d. 19 Jul 1875, m. Susannah Knox 1824. Mary, b. 1803? Catherine, b. 1805? William, b. 9 Jul 1808, d. 30 Jan 1877, m. Hannah Brown 1827. Sarah/Sallie, b. 1810? Samuel, b. 1811? 4. FHL book 929.273 W891bg (film 1440714) "The Worden Surname from Peter Worden of Yarmouth, to 1850," by Gilbert S. Bahn, revised 2002 edition, pp. 182-85: "It is believed (by many) that Samuel III migrated a little beyond Hudson River, to settle in New Jersey, and that a line of Samuels followed. The primary basis for belief is provided by two marriages at Monmouth (per New Jersey Archives, First Series, Vol 22, p 448): Phebe Worden and Safety Bowne on 22 Apr 1743, and Penelope Warden [sic] and David Woodmansee on 21 Dec 1744, these females matching the two known daughters. It is presumed that the following children were born to Samuel III and his wife, Abigail Mott, and are missing from surviving records: Samuel IV circa 1732, Sarah circa 1735, Hannah 18 Jan 1738, and Hosannah circa 1740. These approximate years of birth for daughters are consistent with these later marriages [same reference]: Sarah Worden and Job Comel, 30 May 1755, Hannah Warden [sic] and James Woodmansee, 5 Oct 1758, and Hosannah Worden and John Johnson, 4 Jun 1760. Sarah married at Shrewsbury, and the other two at Monmouth. A Samuel Worden married Rebecca Chamberlain, both of Good Luck, 10 Oct 1755, according to New Jersey Colonial Documents, Vol XXII, p 433. This is presumed to be Samuel IV. There is a Good Luck Cemetery at Forked River, Ocean Co, NJ, which seems to identify the location of the vanished community of Good Luck. Nothing more is known definitively of this presumed Samuel IV or Rebecca. On page 195 of Wordens Past, this Samuel is credited with sons Albert, Daniel, and Washington, and it is said that he and they operated a salt works. Not only are these three otherwise unknown, but also it is extremely unlikely that a 1755 marriage might have produced a son named Washington. On page 1520 of Wordens Past, it is stated that Samuel Worden in 1754 owned a salt works along Barnegat Bay (which corresponds to Forked River), and that the salt works were destroyed by the British during the Revolution. Samuel IV is presumed to be the father of Samuel V, of Forked River, born in August 1772 (per Wordens Past page 386). On one side there is a huge void in applicable New Jersey records, subsequent to the early marriages presented above, especially in lack of census records prior to 1830. On the other side is the fact that when Wordens actually can be picked up again in New Jersey, in the 1830 census, five households in Monmouth County are headed by five sons of this presumed Samuel V (one of them named Albert, to be mentioned below). Samuel IV might perhaps be a Tory mentioned by ONW on his page 163, that is, Samuel Worden of Murderkill, DE [a vanished location name]. If he were, this might explain there being no details about Albert and Daniel, and a brother - gone off to the British, with Samuel V and his mother left behind. If the three alleged sons were old enough (as teenagers) to be assisting Samuel IV at the salt works on the eve of the Revolution, then they were much older than Samuel V, and (presuming their very existence) likely half-brothers. ONWs Delaware Tory must be the subject of a brief account on page 236 of Wordens Past. This concerns a sea captain named Samuel Worden who absconded from New Jersey in 1774 with a boat, and took with him a woman not his wife. He was then of Kent County, DE, and the woman was of Great Egg Harbour NJ. He was about 45 years of age, which comes close to matching the birth year assigned above, approximately, to Samuel IV. On page 1176 of Wordens Past there was considered the possibility (which remains just that) that William Worden of Springfield OH (variously said to have been born in New Jersey, Philadelphia, or Delaware) was a grandson of the presumed Samuel IV; William was born in 1785. Now there arises the alternate possibility that he was the offspring of the illicit union of the sea captain and the woman from Great Egg Harbour, altho the eleven years between 1774 and 1785 argues against so delayed a demonstrable consequence of passion. While these elements concerning the Tory, the sea captain, and William of Springfield remain indefinite, they demonstrate the importance of bits and pieces of the record to be found in Wordens Past. What are needed are many more bits and pieces, to fill in large remaining gaps. Borrowing from what follows, it should be noted that while the sons attributed to Samuel V are found in Monmouth County in 1830 and 1840, two of them are found at Union, Ocean County, in 1850 (with the other three also scattered from Dover). A Union has not been located in Ocean County, and one may suggest that the actual location was the same as Forked River. This premise becomes more tenable when it is noted that the Albert mentioned above was buried in the aforementioned Good Luck Cemetery at Forked River, this being in 1868 when Albert was aged 72. (This, and other burials there, are noted on page 1574 of Wordens Past; that of a Samuel Worden who died 1 Apr 1842, aged 39, is inexplicable.) Now attention can be directed to the family of the Samuel taken to be Samuel V, having no known siblings for this man after having excluded the ethereal Albert, Daniel, and "Washington." The maiden name of Samuel's wife Mary is given variously as Winner or Winnow. He died in June 1812 at Lanoka Harbor, NJ, which is very close to Forked River in Ocean County. (This suggests the Monmouth County census appearances to be the exceptional ones.) Samuel and Mary had Albert born 16 Oct 1795 as computed from age at death, Charles born 27 Dec 1796 as likewise computed, Elizabeth born c1799, Joshua born 1 Oct 1801, Mary born c1803, Catherine born c1805, Samuel (VI, as assumed) born c1806, William born 9 Jul 1808, and Sarah b. c1810. Albert's first wife was Lavina (or Lavinia) Headley, whom he married 15 Jun 1816. She died in 1825. His second wife, named Margaret, died in 1828, and his third, named Abigail, died in 1841. His fourth wife was Rebecca Coward (perhaps Widow Coward). Albert is found in the 1830 and 1840 censuses at Dover, Monmouth Co, NJ, and in 1850 at Union, Ocean Co. His children were Samuel, born 25 Mar 1817, Martha, born c1818, Joel Headley, born 16 Sep 1820, Daniel Conover, born 3 Oct 1822, Albert, born 14 Apr 1825 (and died 10 May 1825), Randolph, born 4 Sep 1827, William Henry, born c1833 (and died 7 Jul 1837), Mary, born c1836, Margaret, born 30 Aug 1839 (and died in 1849), and George R, born c1840. Five were born to Lavina, Randolph to Margaret, and four to Abigail. By 1850, Samuel had married and acquired an infant daughter. His wife's name was Edith and the baby, b. c1849, was Catharine according to the census, and apparently properly Mary Catharine. They resided within Albert's household. . By 1850, Joel had married Mary A. Lampson, and they had children Lavinia, born 24 May 1843, Emeline, born 11 Feb 1845, and Redden (per census) / Reding (per WP 1574) / Redding (per WP 1575), born 13 Sep 1848. Also by 1850, Daniel had married Isabel Hull, and Randolph had married Mariah or Maria (Wood?), apparently a young widow, because there is found in 1850 at Union a household comprised of Jeremiah H. Wood, 54, his wife Louisa, 48, Maria L. Worden, 23, and William H. Wood, .5. Only the censustaker could explain why Randolph and Maria were listed in different households. Daniel and Isobel subsequently had Washington, born 21 Nov 1850, and William Henry, born 7 Dec 1852. The second son of the presumed Samuel V, Charles, married Hannah Cramer. Knowledge of their family is incomplete. They had John Wesley, born 11 Sep 1820, Charles, born c1827, James, born 26 Mar 1826, and Elizabeth, born c1834, plus three "census daughters" and one "census son" according to the 1830 and 1840 censuses. In 1850, Charles and Hannah resided with Dykeman Shook and his wife Elizabeth, i.e., their daughter Elizabeth, in Henderson County, IL. Also there was their son John with a family. His wife was Mary A Salter, who was born I 5 Feb 1827 and whom he married 15 Jan 1844, and their children then were Hannah Elizabeth, born 10 Jul 1845, Charles, born 10 Oct 1847, and Sarah Emeline, born 10 Oct 1849. Their children born after 1850 were John Salter, born 21 Feb 1851, Mary Jane, born 9 Mar 1855, Samuel, born 19 Jan 1857, Fanny, born 20 Jan 1859, Lavina, born 15 Mar 1861, David S, born 8 Jan 1863, James, born 25 May 1865, Paul, born 6 Aug 1 867, and William Edwin, born 6 Mar 1870. The sons Charles Jr. and James of the first Charles, and their four unknown "census siblings" have not been located in the 1850 census. The third son of the presumed Samuel V, Joshua, married Susan Knox. They had one daughter who lived to adulthood, Elizabeth, born c1825, and two others. One of these two was Harriet, who was born in 1826 and died past the 1830 census. The name of the other is unknown. She was counted in 1840, and apparently died prior to 1850. In 1850 at Union the household headed by Joshua, 48, had also Susan, 46, Elizabeth, 25, and Rebecca Van Cleaf, 2. The fourth son of the presumed Samuel V, William, married Hannah Brown. After 1830 at Dover, they are found in 1840 at Bergen, Hudson Co, NJ, still childless, and their status is unchanged there in 1850, he then aged 40 and she 39. The presumed Samuel VI is found in the 1830 census at Upper Freehold in Monmouth Go, with wife Maryann Hendrickson, whom he married 11 Oct 1827, and infants William and Alice. The family was missed in 1840 (at least in indexing), and appears again in 1850 at New Hanover, Burlington Go, NJ. Then the composition is Samuel, 44, Maryann, 40, William, 21, Alice, 20, Asa 19, Annaliza, 15, Gilbert, 13, and Mary C, 11." BIRTH: 1. Calculated from tombstone cemetery record cited below. Some ancestry.com databases indicate Aug 1773 but without documentation. DEATH: 1. Per website -Samuel Worden, 1 June 1812, age 39 years, 10 months, 26 days. -Mary Worden, 24 Jan 1828, age 59 years, 4 months, 11 days. 2. I checked the book "Index of wills, office of Secretary of State, state of New Jersey" and found no entry for any Samuel Worden. | Worden, Samuel (I661)
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| 4752 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The booklet on the Frederick family by Mrs. Alida Reed of Gloversville, NY, 1957 (she died Dec 1966) with copies at the Montgomery Co., NY, Archives and a microfilmed copy on FHL film 1312457, item 4). Alida descends through Hans Jacob Frederick and Margaret Young and their son George: "George, b. 11 Jan, 1775, d. 5 Nov 1824, age 49 years, 9 months and 25 days; md. Catherine Cag of Johnstown, 21 Feb 1803, by the Rev. Abraham Van Horne, at the Dutch Reformed Church, Caughnawaga (Fonda), NY, vol. 1, pg. 190. Catharine was born 20 Jun, 1784. George Frederick's Will made Oct. 29, 1824, probated 18 Dec 1824; he names his wife and oldest son executors, and mentions all of his children. Book of Wills, no. 1, p. 381, Fulton County Surrogate's office, Johnstown, NY. George Frederick bought land of Daniel Cower of Keck Center in 1792, and later we find many real estate deals in and around Keck Center and Ephratah. So he must have left his wife and children well taken care of. Both George and his wife Catherine are buried in the Adam Frederick Cemetery, Fulton Co. Children of George Frederick and Catharine Cag. Taken from Dutch Reformed Church records, Fonda, NY, Vol. 2: a. Margaret (Peggy) b. 9 Jul 1804. Sp. Jacob Frederick and Margaret Young, grandparents. b. Hannah (Annah), b. 24 mar 1806. c. Philip, b. 25 Dec 1809. Sp. Philip Frederick and Gertrude Miller. d. William G., b. 29 Apr 1812. e. Jacob W., b. 26 Mar 1814. Sp. Elizabeth Smith and Moses Cag. f. Eve, b. 29 Oct, 1816. g. Elizabeth (Betsy) b. 17 Jan 1819. h. Peter, b. 23 Mar 1821, died an infant. i. Adam, b. 24 Dec 1823." 2. Censuses: 1820 US: Johnstown Twp., Fulton, NY, p. 6 of 25, taken in alphabetical order including all of the following Fredericks (males to 10, 10-16, 16-18, 16-26, 26-45, 45+; females to 10, 10-16, 16-26, 26-45, 45+): Eve; 000000; 00010. Philip; 000100; 10100. Jacob; 000100; 10100. William; 330010; 21110. Lewis; 300010; 21010. Philip; 000101; 00001. George; 210010; 22010. Jacob; 000100; 10010. BIRTH: 1. The actual birth place is unknown. Both Jacob Frederick and Margaret Young were of Warrensbush (now Florida Township) in Montgomery Co. They both did eventually end up in Johnstown, which is about 10 miles max from Mill Point and north across the Mohawk River. When they moved is not known except that they did buy land there at Keck Center in 1792. They may have been paying quit-rent on the property before then since it was about the early 1790 when many of the landowners were finally selling the quit-rented land. Alida Reed in her booklet already referenced elsewhere in these note indicates she believes they moved there shortly after the birth of their first child Peter. She is confident that it may have been no later than when Margaret was born in 1785 because the sponsors at Margaret's birth were Jacob Bossert and his wife Margaret. She says, "In the genealogy of the Bossart family (sometimes spelled Boshart and Bushart) we find the first of that family did live in the section of Johnstown that leads to Fonda. So they were probably neighbors." I currently use "of Warrensbush." DEATH: 1. The book "Compendium of Mohawk Valley Families," by Maryly Penrose, p. 282: "Probate abstract. Frederick, George, (of Johnstown), will dated 10/29/1824; probated 12/18/1824. Legatees: wife, Katherine; sons, Philip, William, Jacob and Adam; daus., Peggy, Hannah, Eve and Betsey. Executors: wife; Henry Grose, David Etig. Witnesses: Elijah Hayward, John and Abraham Niver. (Will Montgomery 57:181)" BURIAL: 1. 4 Nov 2007 Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyfulton/cemeteries/AdamFredCem.html: "This cemetery is located on the road between Cork Center and Keck Center in the town of Johnstown. These inscriptions were copied March 31, 1948 by Dr. R. M. Palmer, Former Fulton County Historian. This transcript can be found at the Johnstown Historical Society, William Street, Johnstown, New York. It was donated to the Fulton County GenWebsite by James Morrison, archivist for Johnstown Historical Society, and transcribed by Linda Jasztal, March 5, 2000: "John Frederick. Died Nov. 16, 1872. Aged 1 yr., 5 mos, and 4 days. Son of William and m. Frederick. Peter Frederick. Died Aug. 25, 1822. Aged 1 yr., 5 mos. and 2 days. Adam Frederick. Died Sept. 12, 1858. Aged 14 yrs., 6 mos. and 6 days, son of Philip G. and Elizabeth Frederick. George Frederick. Died Nov. 6, 1824 Aged 49 yrs., 9 mos. and 25 days. 'I leave your home to die no more.' Catherine Frederick. Died Oct. 1, 1865 In her 84 year, wife of George Frederick. 'Weep not for me my children dear, I am not dead but sleeping here.' " | Frederick, George (I4454)
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| 4753 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The booklet on the Frederick family by Mrs. Alida Reed of Gloversville, NY, 1957 (she died Dec 1966) with copies at the Montgomery Co., NY, Archives and a microfilmed copy on FHL film 1312457, item 4). Alida descends through Hans Jacob Frederick and Margaret Young and their son George: A. "George, bap. 11 Jan, 1775, d. 5 Nov 1824, age 49 years, 9 months and 25 days; md. Catherine Cag of Johnstown, 21 Feb 1803, by the Rev. Abraham Van Horne, at the Dutch Reformed Church, Caughnawaga (Fonda), NY, vol. 1, pg. 190. Catharine was born 20 Jun, 1784. George Frederick's Will made Oct. 29, 1824, probated 18 Dec 1824; he names his wife and oldest son executors, and mentions all of his children. Book of Wills, no. 1, p. 381, Fulton County Surrogate's office, Johnstown, NY. George Frederick bought land of Daniel Cower of Keck Center n 1792, and later we find many real esate deals in and around Keck Center and Ephratah. So he must have left his wife and children well taken care of. Both George and his wife Catherine are buried in the Adam Frederick Cemetery, Fulton Co. Children of George Frederick and Catharine Cag. Taken from Dutch Reformed Church records, Fonda, NY, Vol. 2: a. Margaret (Peggy) b. 9 Jul 1804. Sp. Jacob Frederick and Margaret Young, grandparents. b. Hannah (Annah), b. 24 mar 1806. c. Philip, b. 25 Dec 1809. Sp. Philip Frederick and Gertrude Miller. d. William G., b. 29 Apr 1812. e. Jacob W., b. 26 Mar 1814. Sp. Elizabeth Smith and Moses Cag. f. Eve, b. 29 Oct, 1816. g. Elizabeth (Betsy), b. 17 Jan 1819. h. Peter, b. 23 Mar 1821, died an infant. i. Adam, b. 24 Dec 1823." B. "The original names seems to have been Caghey, shortened to Cag, Cagg, Kag, Keg, and and Kegg. In the book, 'New York in the Revolution,' by Roberts, we find many of the Cag family in the 15th Regiment of Albany County Militia... the first settler in Johnstown by the name of Cag was Andrew. He was born 1750. His death record in St. John's Episcopal Church record in Johnstown, NY says: Andrew Cag died 2 Jun 1825, age 75. We do not know his wife's name, but his children were: [lists George, Margarite, Celestia, Catherine who married George Frederick and Moses.]" C. "Adam's mother, Catherine Cag Frederick, lived with Adam and his wife, Sally, until her death 1 Oct 1865, in her 84th year. They buried her in the farm Cemetery beside her husband, our George." Adam's farm was at Keck Center. 2. Mentioned in probate of husband. The book "Compendium of Mohawk Valley Families," by Maryly Penrose, p. 282: "Probate abstract. Frederick, George, (of Johnstown), will dated 10/29/1824; probated 12/18/1824. Legatees: wife, Katherine; sons, Philip, William, Jacob and Adam; daus., Peggy, Hannah, Eve and Betsey. Executors: wife; Henry Grose, David Etig. witnesses: Elijah Hayward, John and Abraham Niver. (Will Montgomery Company 57:181)" 3. Censuses: 1860 US: Johnstown Twsp., Fulton, NY, 2 Jul 1860, p. 37 of 222, house 267, family 272: Adam Fredrick, 36, farmer, $6000, $2000, NY. Sally, 36, NY. Catherine Fredrick, 78, NY. Benjamin Rowland, 77, NY. Benjamin, 22, farm laborer, NY. William, 26, farm laborer, NY. Note Philip G. Fredrick (51) family is next door, Lawrence Fredrick (54) family is three doors away, and William Fredrick (34) family is two doors away. BURIAL: 1. 4 Nov 2007 Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyfulton/cemeteries/AdamFredCem.html: "This cemetery is located on the road between Cork Center and Keck Center in the town of Johnstown. These inscriptions were copied March 31, 1948 by Dr. R. M. Palmer, Former Fulton County Historian. This transcript can be found at the Johnstown Historical Society, William Street, Johnstown, New York. It was donated to the Fulton County GenWeb site by James Morrison, archivist for Johnstown Historical Society, and transcribed by Linda Jasztal, March 5, 2000: "John Frederick. Died Nov. 16, 1872. Aged 1 yr., 5 mos, and 4 days. Son of William and m. Frederick. Peter Frederick. Died Aug. 25, 1822. Aged 1 yr., 5 mos. and 2 days. Adam Frederick. Died Sept. 12, 1858. Aged 14 yrs., 6 mos. and 6 days, son of Philip G. and Elizabeth Frederick. George Frederick. Died Nov. 6, 1824 Aged 49 yrs., 9 mos. and 25 days. 'I leave your home to die no more.' Catherine Frederick. Died Oct. 1, 1865 In her 84 year, wife of George Frederick. 'Weep not for me my children dear, I am not dead but sleeping here.' " ~ORDINANCES: Verified 4 Nov 2007. BAPTISM: Online Ordinance Index. ENDOWMENT: Online Ordinance Index FHL film 452066, p. 21. SEALING TO PARENTS: Submission 4-4846-9845-7431-584. SEALING TO SPOUSE: Online Ordinance Index FHL film 457634: George Frederick and Catherine Cagg, 21 Feb 1803 at Fonda, Montgomery, NY. | Keck, Catharine (I4455)
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| 4754 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The booklet on the Frederick family by Mrs. Alida Reed of Gloversville, NY, 1957 (she died Dec 1966) with copies at the Montgomery Co., NY, Archives and a microfilmed copy on FHL film 1312457, item 4). Alida descends through Hans Jacob Frederick and Margaret Young and their son George: "Ludwick, bp. 23 May 1791, Sp. Hendrick Severs and his wife (p. 98 Dutch Reformed Church record, Caughnawaga); md. Maria (Mary). Children: Jacob L., b. 1817 Peter, b. 10 Oct 1819 William, b. 22 Apr 1821." | Maria or Mary (I4458)
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| 4755 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The booklet on the Frederick family by Mrs. Alida Reed of Gloversville, NY, 1957 (she died Dec 1966) with copies at the Montgomery Co., NY, Archives and a microfilmed copy on FHL film 1312457, item 4). Alida descends through Hans Jacob Frederick and Margaret Young: "Philip, b. 7 Mar, 1772, d. 30 May 1857, age 85; md. Gertrude Miller. Children: Jacob, b. 8 Mar 1794. Sp. Jacob Frederick and Margaret Young (grandparents). Hannah, b. 25 Dec 1797. Eva, b. 29 Apr 1802. Both Philip and his wife Gertrude (Gitty) are buried in Hillebrandt Cemetery." 2. Censuses: 1850 US: Johnstown Township, Fulton, New York, p. 108 of 148, 5 Sep 1850, household 1761: Family 1845: Phillip Fredrick, 78, farmer, NY. Gitty, 87, NY. Family 1846 in same household: Wm. G. Fredrick, 36, farmer, $9500, NY. Jane A. Fredrick, 26, NY. Henry G. Miller, 29, Lab., NY. 3. The book "Compendium of Mohawk Valley Families," by Maryly Penrose, p. 282: "Jacob, b. 8 Mar 1794 to Philip and Gertraut (?) Friderich. LTC, Sa." [I assume this is Lutheran Trinity Church, but I am unsure was "Sa" stands for.] BURIAL: 1. 4 Nov 2007 website http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyfulton/cemeteries/HillabrandtCem.html: "This cemetery is located just north of the Old Hillabrant Farm in the town of Johnstown. These inscriptions were copied September 11, 1947 by Dr. R. M. Palmer, Former Fulton County Historian. This transcript can be found at the Johnstown Historical Society, William Street, Johnstown, New York. It was sent in to the Fulton County GenWeb site by James Morrison, archivist for Johnstown Historical Society and was transcribed by Linda Jasztal, March 8, 2000: Ira Frederick. Died May 17, 1881. Aged 49 yrs., 1 mo. and 17 days Dearest Ira though hast left us Thy loss we deeply feal; (sic) Tis god that hath bereft us He can all our sorrows heal. Philip Frederick. Died May 30, 1857. Aged 85 yrs., 2 mo. and 23 days. Gitty Frederick, wife of Philip Frederick. Died - - y 1, 185 - . Stone broken." SOURCES_MISC: 1. Henry Z. Jones is the author of three series of books on the Palatines: "The Palatine Families of New York: A Study of the German Immigrants Who arrived in New York in 1710," (1985); "More Palatine Families," (1991); and "Even More Palatine Families, 18th Century Immigrants to the American Colonies and their German, Swiss and Austrian Origins," 2002. I have reviewed all three and there is nothing on this person. | Miller, Gertraut or Gitty or Gertrude (I1264)
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| 4756 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The burial of "Sarah Back" on 23 Oct 1831 reports that she was 85 years old. There are no Sarah Wells christened in 1746 in the shire of Kent per the indexed records of Family Search; however, there are several Sarah Wells christened in 1745 in Kent, England including those from Swanscombe, Egerton, and Tonbridge-Wells. If 1744 and 1747 are used, there are additional ones in Staplehurst and Lenham. None of these parishes are immediately adjoining Stockbury, but they are within an approximate ten mile range (except Swanscombe). The marriages were generally done in the the bride's home parish, which would normally point us to Stockbury for her christening. There was no indication in the marriage entry that Sarah was of another parish. There is one christening on 4 Jun 1740 in Stockbury for a Sarah Willes, dau. of Willm. and Mary Wills; however, this child is then shown buried 1 Oct 1740. Without something more definitive than an age at death, it is only a guessing game to assume any of the above Sarah Wells are our Sarah Wells who married Stephen Hales. Family researcher Glen Hales comments on what is available looking only at the indexed records. I add some comments in [brackets]: "My research confirmed several documented facts. Sarah Wells married Stephen Hales on 26 May 1766 in Stockbury, Kent. Stephen's first wife, Ann Clinch, had died the previous year and was buried 1 Aug 1765 in Stockbury, Kent. Stephen and Ann had been married 21 Dec 1754 in Bicknor, Kent. Stephen Hales died and was buried in Stockbury, Kent 25 Apr 1783. Sarah, now Sarah Hales, married Peter Beck 3 Aug 1784 in Newington, Kent. Sarah Beck or Back was buried 23 Oct 1831 in Gillingham, Kent and the record states that she was 85 years of age. Assuming the above dates are all correct, Sarah had to be born between October 1745 and October 1746 ... marriages usually took place in the parish of the bride. Since the marriage of Stephen Hales and Sarah Wells took place in Stockbury and the record stated that they were both from that parish, I therefore searched the Stockbury records carefully to look for marriages or deaths that would place a family member of Sarah Wells in Stockbury so that we could assume that a particular Wells family had moved to Stockbury. I found none. "Next, it was time to search for any Sarah Wells that was born near Stockbury at the right time. I, obviously, was not able to look at all parish records in Kent, so I used the internet and Family Search to identify the possibilities. I could only find the three different people named Sarah Wells that were born in Kent in 1745 or 1746. They are Sarah Wells the daughter of Thomas and Mary Well who was christened 21 Mar 1745 in Tunbridge Wells. Tunbridge Wells is over 18 miles from Stockbury. The second Sarah Wells was the daughter of John Wells who was christened 15 Dec 1745 in Swanscombe. Swanscombe is about 16 miles from Stockbury. The third Sarah Wells was the daughter of John Wells and Elizabeth Law who was christened 20 Dec 1745 in Egerton. Egerton is less than 10 miles from Stockbury. The first Sarah Wells was at least 86 ½ years old when Sarah Beck Died ... The Swanscombe parish record of the second Sarah Wells says "Sarah Wells the daughter of John Wells was christened 15 Dec 1745". Shortly after in the same parish record is says "Sarah Wells the daughter of John Wells was buried 14 Jan 1746" so the second Sarah Well is not a possibility. That leaves the 3rd Sarah Wells who was christened in Egerton on 20 Dec 1745. "[The] other possibilities from Staplehurst and Lenham. The Sarah Wells from Staplehurst would have been much more than 85 years old when Sarah Beck died ... The Sarah from Lenham would be possible if she wasn't christened until she was about 2 years old, but the record has her name as Sarah Wiles not Wells [Wiles/Willes is a variant Kent spelling for Wells]..." The first observation would seem to indicate that the Sarah Wells, daughter of John and Elizabeth, christened 20 December 1745 in Egerton is a strong possibility. From my work in the Kent Records Office in Maidstone and at each parish onsite, I believe more research is needed before we can fully narrow down the possibilities. Some points to consider in further research: 1. Not all the surrounding parishes for Stockbury have been indexed. A radius parish by parish search needs to be done. The name Wills, Wells, Wiles all used interchangeably -- and the name is very common in Kent. 2. The target area should be larger than 10 miles. Our Hales and associated families were itinerant in many cases chasing the harvests or whatever. They moved a lot from village to village working for others and so this spreads our search area. There was a lot of social and economic distress in this area at this time, which probably led to our Hales leaving for Canada. They left no land or ownership records that have been found thus far. 3. "Reported" ages in Kent records are not certain. In many instances the estimated ages probably came from a third party who may not have been certain. We see the same thing in American census records. 4. The indexed records do not allow for non-conformist churches, which need to be analyzed as well. 5. The actual images for most all wills for Kent are now online on Family Search and we need to go through all Wells (and variant spellings) of the area and time period to search for mention of our Sarah as a sister, daughter, or whatever. 6. We need to develop and follow each Wells family in our search area beyond a simple christening entry analysis to see if they show up up later in other marriages or adult burials. BIRTH: 1. Nothing found in Stockbury Church records. Stockbury does have the christening of a John Wells, 15 Oct 1769, born in Hucking to his mother Hannah Wells. Could this be a relation of Sarah? MARRIAGE: 1. FHL film 1752235 item #2, Archdeacon's Transcript of Stockbury: "1766, May 6th, Married Stephen Hales and Sarah Wells by Banns." Gives no mention of any other parish origin for Sarah. FHL film 1473718 Parish Records for Stockbury, Kent adds that both are of the parish. The same film also has the marriage banns which state that both are of the parish. 2. Findmypast's "Kent Marriages": Peter Beck, widower, and Sarah Hales, widow, both of the parish, md. 3 Aug 1784 at Newington (Sittingbourne) by licence. Source: Newington marriages 1558-1836. The above also confirmed in FHL film 1736928 Bishop's Transcript of Newington (next Sittingbourne). BURIAL: 1. Findmypast's "Kent Burials": Sarah Back, age 85, residing at Gillingham, bur. Newington (Sittingbourne) 23 Oct 1831. Source: Newington burials 1558-1864. SOURCES_MISC: 1. 18 Dec 2002 website | Wells, Sarah (I1832)
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| 4757 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The burial records for Haydon Bridge church (FHL film 991796) has an entry which is probably the sons of this William: -"12 May 1703, Jno., son of Wm. Muis of Haydon Bridge." MARRIAGE: 1. First marriage. The marriage was duplicated in two parishes for reasons unknown: -Haydon Bridge church (FHL film 991796): "1 Dec 1701, Wm. Muis and Mary Talor." -Chollerton church (FHL film 252505): "24 Nov 1701, William Mews and mary Taylor of Haden bridge married." 2. Second marriage. The marriage records for Haydon Bridge church (FHL film 991796): "25 May 1724, Wm. Mewis and Mary Hayles." Surprisingly the same marriage is also recorded in the Warden church records, FHL film 1068615, as: "25 May 1724, William Mewes and Mary Hayles." Haydon Bridge was a dependent chapelry subservient to Warden parish and is probably the reason for the apparent duplication of recording the marriage. | Muis or Mewis, William (I4728)
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| 4758 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The burial records for Haydon Bridge church (FHL film 991796): "18 Aug 1701, Isabell, wife of Jno. Muis of Haydon Bridge my Church." Probably died shortly after the childbirth of her last child Robert, who was christened 9 Apr 1701 and was buried 8 Jul 1702. There are two Isabels, both wives of John Muis, who died in close proximity timewise in 1683 and 1701. The two Johns are father and son and the Isabel who died last would have had to been the son's wife since there are several children born to John (the younger) after the death of the earlier Isabel in 1683. MARRIAGE: 1. The marriage records for Haydon Bridge are incomplete in this time period and a search of existing records did not turn up the marriage. If it occurred, it is probably in the missing years. | Isabell (I4729)
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| 4759 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The case for a relationship of the early New Jersey residents Isaac Winner of Dover Township in Monmouth Co., Abraham Winner of Northampton Township in Burlington Co., and John Winner of Great Egg Harbor in Gloucester Co. to Isaac Winner Sr. of Bucks Co., Pennsylvania. Prepared 22 Nov 2011 by Kerry Petersen There are two basic groups of Winners circa the Revolutionary War and post era in New Jersey. The oldest are the Winnes of northern New Jersey who derive from the Dutch immigrant Pieter Winne of New Amsterdam and eventually Albany, New York. Their genealogical descendancy is conclusively presented in detail in "The Dutch Settlers Society of Albany Yearbook," v. 40 (1964-1966), pp. 6-28. A branch of this family ended up in upstate New Jersey and we easily follow them in New Jersey probate and other documents. They retained their Dutch roots even in the era of our discussion. They are all accounted for and they remain distinctly separate from our group of Winners. Unfortunately, some of the northern records indiscriminately interchange the surnames Winne and Winner for these families, which has led to confusion. An early Winner researcher from the 1950s, Enid Willardson, spent a lifetime trying to seek a connection from our Winners back through the Winnes, but failed in so doing even after amassing over 3000 Winne names. I have personally reviewed her workpapers after her decease and the tentative connection she contrived to make does not stand up to scrutiny and more modern research. Regrettably it was picked up by the old LDS Ancestral File based upon her submission and has since bled through to many unsuspecting user-submitted online databases. It is not my purpose to detail the Winnes; however, before linking our three early Winners under discussion, it was critical to eliminate the Winne family as a possible ancestry. Suffice it to say that this was done. This then directs us to look to neighboring Bucks County for the source of our Winners. Any study of early New Jersey records in the three counties we are discussing quickly leads to the conclusion that there were no Winners reported there before our three Winner men. They came from elsewhere then New Jersey. Lets review first Isaac of Dover since his link to Bucks county is easiest to assemble. My descendancy comes from Isaac. We will then link Isaac to Abraham and then Abraham and John. Isaac Winner of Dover: The following is circumstantial, but very compelling nevertheless. First, I made comprehensive search of all early Winners in both New Jersey and Bucks co., Pennsylvania (abstracts available in the notes of the earliest Winner in my PAF files). With such a comprehensive overview of these early Winners and by process of elimination, I have found a pattern which I believe establishes and follows the ancestry of the earliest Isaac Winner of Dover Twp., Monmouth Co., NJ. - who is our first ancestor in that area. This is my thinking: Isaac's son Jonathan (who married Sarah Predmore) in the 1850 census in Brown Co., OH, indicates he was born abt. 1778 in Pennsylvania - this is even though we know he was in Dover Twp. circa 1812. Jonathan's birth with him being the first born of Isaac would logically lead us to a marriage there for about 1776. (See separate research into the descendants of Isaac Winner, who also include: Ohio residents John Winner and Hester Ann Mason, Isaac Winner and Mary Catherine Powell, Samuel Winner; California resident George K. Winner; and Monmouth residents Rueben H. Winner and Amy Winner who m. 1. Charles Soper and 2. Jacob Creby/Creeley.) Another link to Pennsylvania is found with Isaac's son, Isaac (bro. of Jonathan), who is reported to have married his wife Mary Catherine Powell in Philadelphia, PA, per the published biography of Isaac and Mary's son John Leopold Winner (see their notes for transcript). We also have a personal family history memoir from Isabel (Lambert) Winner, wife of James4 Winner (Benjamin3, Jonathan2, Isaac1) who states that the Winners were from Pennsylvania, probably Bucks county. (Source: 20 Jun 2004 email from descendant Gary Coon Interestingly, we find some records in Bucks county (and New Jersey) that fit the pattern. A. "New Jersey Marriage Records, 1665-1800," by William Nelson, Marriage Licenses from New Jersey Colonial Documents: "Winner, Isaac, Bucks, PA, and Hannah Searl, Bucks, PA, 1776 Nov. 9." (Familysearch, source film 888709, vol. W, p. 474.) Note that this date fits perfectly with Jonathan's birth discussed above while establishing a link with Bucks County and NJ. In doing an Internet search for this couple on 20 Nov 2011, absolutely no hits were found - this means that this particular couple has never been linked into a family tree or written up on the web even though the marriage record clearly exists. Many with Quaker backgrounds would "marry out of meeting" which would explain a marriage license over the border for two Bucks Co. residents (i.e. a trip to Las Vegas for a no-question marriage). B. We find only one Isaac Winner in Bucks Co., PA, in the early records. Note however that all of a sudden in 1778/1779 we see both an Isaac Sr. and Jr. together in Middletown. Isaac Jr. shows as married, which concurs with the 1776 marriage discussed above. It also shows Isaac Jr. being in Pennsylvania at the time of the birth of Jonathan in 1778. References to Isaacs in Middletown return to one after 1779 then disappear after 1781. Perhaps Isaac Sr. died thereafter, but more importantly we see our Isaac in the Dover Twp., NJ tax records beginning 1783. a. "Tax Records 1693-1778" (year, township, name, ₤ value, tax s-d) for Bucks Co.: -1754, Middleton, Isaac Winner, 10, 1-8, married. -1757, Middleton, Isaack Winner, 6, 1-0, married. -1760, Middleton, Isaac Winner, 4, 1-0. -1762, Middleton, Isaac Winner, 4, 1-0. -1778, Middleton, Isaac Winner Sr., 4, 2-0, married. -1778, Middleton, Isaac Winner Jr., 4, 2-0, married. b. 1779 Tax List: (Bucks co., PA) -Isaac Winner, Sen., Middleton. -Isaac Winner, Jun., Middleton. c. Pagenweb Bucks Co. accessed 21 Nov 2011 "Middletown Township Property and Tax Records 1779," transcribed by Patricia Woodruff January 2001 (Name -Acres-Horses-Cattle-Servants), married men: -Isaac Winner, Jr.-0-0-1-0 -Isaac Winner, Sen.-0-0-1-0 -Samuel Winner-0-0-1-0 d. Pagenweb Bucks Co. accessed 21 Nov 2011: "Middletown Township Property and Tax Records," transcribed by Laura VanSant 2003 (Name-Acres-Horses-Cattle-Servants) - all Isaacs disappear after 1781: -1781: Isaac Winner, weaver, 0-1-1-0 -1782: Samuel Winner, 0 0 2 0 -1783: Sam'l Winner 2.10 [Not the assessment - probably the tax amount of 2 sh. 10 d.] e. There is an early Isaac Winner in Dover Township; no other Winners are shown in Dover in the same time period. Ancestry.com shows: -Oct. 1783 Tax List: Isaac Winnir -June 1786 Tax List: Isaac Winner -"Name on a petition, 4 Mar 1786, to the Legislature from freeholders and inhabitants of part of Dover Township in Monmouth County asking that a new county be formed because of the distance they have to..." -June 1789 Tax List: Isaac Winner -June 1793 Tax List: Isaac Winner -June 1796 Tax List: Isaac Winner -June 1797 Tax List: Isaac Winner Summary: I believe that we are seeing our Isaac, his wife Hannah Searle, and Isaac's father, Isaac, in the above records. Until proven otherwise, I am considering this our ancestral line. Abraham WINNER of NORTHAMPTON (aka Abraham of Mount Holly): Abraham is not my direct line so I don't have as much research on his descendants; however, much has been published on Abraham himself. First let's establish what is more or less known from solid sources as well as the Internet about him and then I will introduce my own additional documentation that I believe links Isaac to Abraham. A. First record of Abraham per FHL book 974.961 V2c "Burlington County Marriages," by H Stanley Craig (1932, rep. 2003), pp. 95, 233, 248: Abraham Winner - Mary Thatcher, 9-13-1769. Variant from FHL film 1320671, it. 5, the book "Historical and Genealogical Miscellany, Data Relating to the Settlement and Settlers of New York and New Jersey," by John E. Stillwell (Baltimore, 1970), p. 72, "Register of St. Mary's Church, Burlington, N.J.": "Married - Abraham Winner & Mary Hatcher, both of Burlington County, were lawfully married, Septem'r 3d 1769, at Mountholly." From the Internet it appears St. Mary's was an Episcopal Church. It is probable that this was an intentional marriage outside of Quaker meeting similar to Isaac's. B. "Revolutionary Census of NJ," by Kenn Stryker-Rodda; List I (1773 & 1774): Abraham Winnor - Northhampton, Burlington Co. C. Abraham (Winnor and Winner): Northampton, Burlington Co. Various Lists: 1774, 1787. D. From "Old Inns and Taverns," by Charles Boyer, p. 49: "Another early tavern keeper was Abraham Winner, whose house was located on the north side of Gaskill's Lane, now Woodlane, near the old Quaker Meeting House. On April 22, 1776, he gave a mortgage to Joseph Butterworth on this property,vwhich had probably then been discontinued as a tavern." E. Rootsweb accessed 21 Nov 2011: "Burlington County NJ - NJGenWeb; Early Tax List - Northampton Township, 1779. Only Winner shown is Abraham Winner (no Isaac or John): 90 acres of land valued at 25, 2 horses, 2 cattle, 1 hog, total whereon to levy 27/5/0, amount of certainty 0.66, tax carried out 1.22. (Note that there is also a Caleb Carr on the same tax list with 250 acres; I believe that the father of Hannah Carr who married John Winner in 1776 was Caleb Carr.) F. Undocumented from Internet accessed 21 Nov 2011: "By Jan 1780 he was purchasing foragemaster." G. Internet accessed 21 Nov 2011: New Jersey Historical Society, "Calendar of New Jersey wills, administrations, etc.," Vol. 5, p. 314: "1780, Oct. 27 - Adm'r - William Cramer, of Little Egg Harbor. Fellowbondsmen - Joseph Biddle, of Springfield, and Abraham Winner, of Northampton; all of Burlington Co. The said William Cramer is appointed Adm'r of the estate of John Little, left unadministered by Sarah Little, during the minority of James, the son of said John Little." H. Internet Usgenweb by Patricia M. Bergener (fmlyhstry@verizon.net) 1999 accessed 21 Nov 2011: "Early New Jersey Marriages - Extracts": #557; Cornelius McAnley of Springfield in the County of Burlington, and Abraham Winner... [bound to]... William Livingston, Governor... 500 pounds... 1 Feb 1784. ... Contract of Marriage between Cornelius McAnley... and Mary Johnson... [w] Jos: Read. I. From the Internet: The following list for Winner Surnames in NJ -Colonial Records, CD 136 Dec 94 ver. GRS v 3:03: Abraham Winner, Burlington Co., NJ voters 1787, pg. 80. J. Online Archive.org "Documents Relating to the Colonial, Revolutionary and Post-Revolutionary History of the State of New Jersey," accessed 21 Nov 2011: "1788, Nov. 15. Borden, Joseph, Jr., of Burlington Co. Int. Adm'r - Robert Dougherty. Fellowbondsman - Abraham Winner; both said Co." K. FHL book 974.961 R28h "Burlington County, New Jersey, Deed Abstracts - Books A, B and C," by Richard S. Hutchinson: "Book D, p. 1, 4 Mar 1794, concerns Commissioners making a division of "property late of William Smith, deceased ... of the City of Burlington [who] died intestate. The division takes over 33 pages and names several dozen adjoining property owners including "Winner's Ferry, land of Abraham Winner and wife on 28 February 1788." L. Undocumented from Internet accessed 21 Nov 2011: "He died in what is to be believed to be the Alms House in Philidelphia and is buried in the same graveyard as Joseph and Elizabeth Winner." M. I include the following just so I can refute it. From the Internet accessed 21 Nov 2011: "Gloucester County Historical Society - Oct, 9, 1969 from Ernistene Siegel, 1906 Watrous Ave, Tampa, FL 33606: "...there was an Abraham Winner of Mt. Holly, who was a tavern keeper there before the out break of the Rev War, and who is still there in 1787. This Abraham Winner was a descendant of Capt. James Winner, who was in Colonel McCrea's Regiment in the Revolutionary War. As a note, Captain James Winner was in Col. McCrea's regiment when they returned Levies, Fort Edward July 21, 1780. A return of Levies raised from Saraghtoga Regiment. And Now in actual service at Fort Ann under the command of Capt. Sherman, John McCrea, Colo. August 11th, 1780. No. 3092 Return of Levies from Colonel McCrea's Regiment. Fort Edward July 21 the 1780. Now to discuss ties of Abraham and Isaac - I found the following: A. In the New Jersey State Archives in Supreme Court cases, I found the following which I believe is significant. We have already surmised above that Dover Isaac was almost certainly the son of Isaac Sr. of Middletown, Bucks Co., and that he married in 1776, left there shortly after 1779, and then shows up in 1783 in Dover. All of a sudden for just a very short time an Isaac shows up in Burlington as plaintiff with Abraham in a court case that begins in 1783. There is no Isaac before nor after in the area and the timeframe dovetails right into the sweet spot of 1779 to 1883 when Isaac is between Bucks Co. and Dover Township. The court cases: -39304: Isaac and Abraham Winner vs. Jacob Shinn 1783-85 held at Burlington, Burlington Co. -44555: Isaac Winner. Poor copy and I can't read any of the details. It is dated 1783 and is probably the same Isaac as above. B. This statement is found on the Internet but without any source. We can't use it for documentation, but it is prescient: "Abraham had relatives in Bucks Co. who were Quakers - Isaac Sr and Jacob Winner." Summary: We know Abraham did not have a son named Isaac at that time and it would be unusual to be partners with a cousin, so a conclusion of a brotherly connection is not out-of line. We could always argue it wasn't Isaac Jr., but Isaac Sr. who disappears from the scene in Bucks Co. in 1781 - but either way it ties Abraham to Isaac Sr. John Winner of Great Egg Harbor: There is much good documentation on this John and not necessary to repeat everything here. He apparently had two marriages. The first marriage is per "New Jersey Marriage Records, 1665-1800," by William Nelson: "Winner, John, Northampton, and Hannah Carr, Northampton, 1776 April 1." According to "The Carr Book," by Arthur R. Carr, 1947, Hannah was b. 10 Sep 1759 to Caleb Carr and she died 9 Aug 1778 in Mt. Holly (Northampton) in childbirth when their son Samuel was born 9 Aug 1778. The Carr book says he died three days later. The marriage was apparently out of Quaker meeting because we find in FHL book 974.961 K2m v.1 "Early Church Records of Burlington County, New Jersey," by Charlotte D. Meldrum, a reference to only one Winner in the entire book, which is in the Minutes of Mount Holly Monthly Meeting. "5th da, 4th mo, 1777... Hannah Winner, produced a paper acknowledging trouble of mind, for going out in marriage." We also find Hannah's father Caleb with 250 acres in the same area in which Abraham (but no other Winners) live (per Rootsweb accessed 21 Nov 2011: "Burlington County NJ - NJGenWeb; Early Tax List - Northampton Township, 1779"). The Carr book reports indicates he died 11 Sep 1783 and his buried next to his daughter. In any case this all places John Winner in Northampton just prior to his being in Great Egg Harbor. John's second marriage is to Millicent Mapes for whom we have on record a will (and codicil) naming her three sons. We also have on record a will for her father Joseph Mapes in which he names his dau. Millicent Winner, his son-in-law John Winner, and his grandson Joseph Winner. Joseph Mapes was prominent in the Quaker community of Great Egg Harbor. John and Millicent has three sons: John, Joseph, and Amos - for whom we have marriage information. FHL film 1425085, it. 6, "Gloucester County, New Jersey, Marriage Records," by H. Stanley Craig, 1930: -Joseph Winner and Millicent Caveller, 2-2-1803. -John Winner and Abigail Doughty, 5-9-1812. -Not reported for Amos. [Per Internet: He married Mary Brackney (from Burlington) September 5, 1805. There are also military records for him which says he was in the War of 1812 and in the War with Algiers in 1815. He was discharged July 10, 1817 with a "surgeons certificate of disability."] -(As a side note, the same marriage records also has "Samuel Winner and Mary Thorn, 3-30-1813." Could it be John's son Samuel from his marriage to Hannah Carr who did not perhaps die three days after his mother as "The Carr Book" would have us believe?) We also have a couple more records that place John Winner in Northampton with Abraham: A. "The Genealogical Magazine of New Jersey," v. 37, p. 75, "New Jersey Rateables 1773-1774, Northampton Twp. of Burlington Co.": -"John Winner sm" -"Abraham Winner 315; 6c" B. "Revolutionary Census of NJ," by Kenn Stryker-Rodda; List I (1773 & 1774): -Abraham Winnor - Northhampton, Burlington Co. -John Winnor - - Northhampton, Burlington Co. Most significantly the following record was found a very specific record that ties Northampton Abraham and Great Egg John. Note that we also gain a name of Mary for Abraham's wife. FHL book 974.961 R28h "Burlington County, New Jersey, Deed Abstracts - Books A, B and C," by Richard S. Hutchinson, p. 41: "Book B, p. 35 - Abraham Winner to John Winner." "28 May 1787 - Abraham Winner … Township of Burlington … New Jersey and Mary his Wife ... [sold to] … John Winner of Great Egg Harbour … Gloucester … Whereas the Said Abraham Winner … [by deed from Joseph Butterworth and Sarah his Wife dated 29 May 1780 and from Samuel Shinn dated 1 February 1776 became seized of two certain parcels of land in the Township of Northampton … (for 260 pounds) … All these his two … Parcels ... of Land …. (adjacent land owners or names - Jacob Hilliard, Edward Hilliard, Edward Andrew, Nathan Gaskill, Cripps Estate) … (3 acres, 2 rods, 23 perches) … The other Piece … [adjacent land owners or names - Side of the Great Road called Gaskill's Lane, Hannah Belcher, Johanna Brow)] … (7 acres, 7 perches). Memorandum - (Before the execution of the above deed, Abraham Winner excepts two Small Pieces, the one sold by him to Abel Harker and the other to Isaiah Bishop Which is Within the above bounds.); (Signed - Abraham Winner, Mary Winner; witnesses - Charles Ellis, Daniel Ellis.)" Summary: It is apparent that John shows up in the records at Northampton in conjunction with Abraham from 1773/4 to 1778. He then disappears by 1779 from the area because only Abraham shows up as the only Winner in the 1779 tax schedules (this evidently is just before Isaac shows up). We then find our John in Great Harbor per Great Egg Harbor, Gloucester Co., various lists for 1774, 1780, 1781 (Winer), 1782, 1783, 1785 (Winners), 1785, 1786, 1790, 1791, 1792, 1793, 1794, 1795, 1796, 1797, 1802. It appears that he had a short presence in Great Egg Harbor shortly in 1774 and then continuously from 1780 on. The 1787 deed between Abraham and John with their residences certainly confirms a family relationship. Summary: The marriages of Abraham in 1769, John in 1776, and Isaac in 1776 would indicate they were of the same generation and probably in that order of age. Interestingly all three appear to have married "out of meeting" from the Quakers. The connections and timelines seem to be more than coincidence. Isaac's apparent connection with Isaac Sr. in Middletown township, Bucks County, PA, would then argue all three must be tied together as probable brothers to most likely Isaac Winner Sr. Of course we cannot rule the taxman may have just called both Isaacs Sr. and Jr. to differentiate them in the locality and one of the other Middletown men could be their father. We see these potential Middletown individuals from tax lists to whom I add my comments: -Isaac Winner, married, 1754, 1757, 1760 & 1762 listed next to Joseph, 1778 and 1779 as Sr. [By process of elimination, Isaac is the only one seemingly left standing for a potential father.] -Samuel Winner, single, 1757, 1760 "Sam'l Winner at Joh. Winr.," 1762, 1778 married and next to John, 1779. [Samuel marries too late to be the father of our three Winners. Probably son of John Winner since they both disappear after 1778. A Samuel shows up as a son in John Winner's 1791 will who is probably this Samuel.] -John Winner, married, 1757, (not listed in 1762), 1778 listed next to Samuel. [This is most likely the John who died and left a will in 1791. (1791, John Winner, Lower Makefield, will, #2356. John Winner of Lower Makefield Twp., Bucks, weaver. January 3, 1791. Proved January 23, 1791. Sons Samuel and John exrs. Ch. Rachel wife of Jacob Watson, Didwell wife of John Smith, Samuel, John, David, Joshua, and David [Moses?] Winner. Gdsns. Levi and John Terry sons of Joshua Terry. Wits: James Moon, Richard Neeld, Peter Vanhorn. Witnesses Amos Gregg and Amos Gregg, Jr.)] -Joseph Winner, 1760 and 1762 listed next to Isaac. [Could this be Isaac Sr.'s father since he drops out of the record ca. 1762 and is close to him in the tax schedules? We also find the name Joseph used among Abraham's and John's sons.] -Isaac Jr, married, 1778. [This is our Isaac that goes to Dover, NJ. and who married 1776.] -James Winner, single, 1778. [Ernestine Siegel identifies James as a son of Isaac Sr.] So from process of elimination, Isaac Winner Sr. appears to be the probable father. Subject to more research, Joseph Winner could perhaps be Isaac Sr.'s father or perhaps a brother. There are two other interesting marriages reported in the 1770s for perhaps other close relations or even brothers to Abraham, John, and Isaac that will need closer scrutiny with further research: A. FHL film 1320671, it. 5, the book "Historical and Genealogical Miscellany, Data Relating to the Settlement and Settlers of New York and New Jersey," by John E. Stillwell (Baltimore, 1970), p. 72, "Register of St. Mary's Church, Burlington, N.J.," p. 88: "Married - Sept. 29, 1774, Jacob Winner & Elizabeth Hellings." Note this is the same church in which Abraham was also married in 1769. The book "New Jersey Marriage Records, 1665-1800," by William Nelson, "Marriage Licenses from New Jersey Colonial Documents" adds a residence: "Winner, Jacob, Bucks, PA, and Elizabeth Helling, Bucks, PA, 1774 Sep 29." I have not seen ongoing records thereafter for Jacob in New Jersey, so I suspect he married "out of meeting" and returned to Pennsylvania. We do find a Bucks Co. tax record in 1778, "Lower Makefield, for Jacob Winner, married." There was another Jacob in Southampton Twp., Burks Co. who appears on a 1772 tax list then in probate: "1778, Jacob, weaver, Southhampton, adm., #1563"; couldn't find actual probate, but was administration only. A couple of loose unsubstantiated Worldconnect entries show that Jacob who married Elizabeth Helling was son of a Jacob in Bucks co. - probably should consider the possibility that Southampton Jacob could be father of Lower Makefield Jacob. No other entries in Bucks Co. for a Jacob after 1778. A more likely explanation and one that Ernestine Siegel mentions in her book is that these two Jacobs were in fact the one and the same with Jacob then dying relatively young. His age would be surmised from the earliest entry with him being at least 21. B. "New Jersey Marriage Records, 1665-1800," by William Nelson, "Marriage Licenses from New Jersey Colonial Documents": "Winner, Amos, and Rebeca Cooper, 1779 May 1." We see the name Amos later used for a son of John Winner of Great Egg Harbor; this would point to perhaps some kinship. I have found no other pre-1800 entries for Amos in either New Jersey or Bucks Co., PA. I don't pretend yet to have sorted out all the very early pre-1800 Winners in Bucks County, but we should look a little further into the very earliest ones to see if we can someday connect things in the middle to Isaac Sr. These are all the entries I can find so far that are pre-1760. There is probably some relationship but I can't yet tell if they were early brothers or fathers/sons. A. We know from probate records that the earliest Winner we have knowledge of in Bucks County (and specifically Middletown Twp.) is John Winner, weaver, Middletown, 1748 probate adm., #628 (administration only with no will). He is probably also be the same John who was a witness to a deed in 1731. Some Internet chat reports John's wife was Didwell, but I have not yet searched for substantiation for this. We do see the John who was a weaver (just like 1748 John) and died in Lower Makefield Twp. in 1791 having a daughter who he named Didwell. (See note above.) B. We know from the following that there was a Jacob Winner that died before 1753, married as a second husband to Sarah ___ (first husband William Hooper. Jacob could very well be a brother to 1748 John. a "Deeds 1684-1763": -Joseph Smith of Bristol Twp., 1753, to Mary Martin, widow, property sold in 1743 to William Hooper, who died intestate and sheriff sold land to Mary Martin and Sarah Winner, formerly Sarah Hooper. -Sarah Winner, widow of Jacob, deed 1753 to Mary Martin. b. "Will abstracts 1685-1785": 1753, Sarah Winner of Bristol Twp., son Anthony Hooper. Joseph Smith, executor. C. "Will abstracts 1685-1785": 1754, Mentions land in Newtown on which "Joseph Winner lives after decease of wife." Principal of will, David Lavell, document does not say relationship but doesn't appear related. As for the other pre-1800 Bucks Co. Winners, I have an abstract of all the entries I have been able to find to date for any researcher that would like to analyze, find patterns, or sort it out. 2. New Jersey probate for Gloucester Co: 2973H: William Winner of Waterford Twp., Gloucester Co. Inv. appraised 15 Oct 1813. Administrator Jesse Winner's affidavit dated 26 Oct 1813. [Probably sons of Abraham Winner of Northampton.] 3. From tax lists: -Abraham (Winnor and Winner): Northampton, Burlington Co. Various Lists: 1774, 1787. -Jesse: Northampton Burlington Co. 1793 Tax List -Septuan: Northampton Burlington Co. 1793 Tax List -William: Northampton Burlington Co. 1793 Tax List 4. The following is a copy of email dated 4 Jul 2004 from Gary Coon "...Now John Winner Sr. of Great Egg Harbor did have ties to the Winner boys of neighboring Burlington Co. Going over the tax records, land records, wills, and marriages of this group, there could be seven brothers: Abraham, Jesse, Thomas, William, John, Samuel, Septimus. (It is said that traditionally a Septimus is the seventh son.) These guys show up together on wills, land deals, and such. Ex: Septimus and William owed his father-in-law's estate for three years rent. Jesse and John are mentioned elsewhere as owning money together. I believe John married Hannah Carr on 1 Apr 1776. She died in childbirth in 1778. He married Melicent Mapes (widow of John Coates) afterward settled in Great Egg Harbor with her family (if not already living there). So John [Winner of Clermont Co., OH who md. Hester Ann Mason] could have been the son of one of them. I've ruled out John, Septimus (he moved to Butler Co., OH, but his son John is said to be the one ending up in Logan co., OH), William died 1813 (and the adm'r was Jesse Winner; no family mentioned), and Thomas was a resident of Philadelphia at the time of his marriage in 1780 (though he had property in Burlington and his wife was living there at the time of the marriage). John [of Clermont Co., OH] was born in 1786 in NJ but both parents were listed from PHIL on a 1798 land sale in Burlington. Most likely his father was Abraham, Jesse, or Samuel. [My comments: John of Clermont, OH was the son of Isaac of Dover. John who md. Hannah Carr and Melicent was brother of Abraham. Jesse, William, Septimus, and a later John (who I believe Gary confuses with John of Clermont, OH and who was b. 1786 NJ) were of a later generation and probable sons of Abraham who is said to have been buried in Philadelphia with a son Joseph and Elizabeth. Judging from Thomas's marriage date, he is more likely of Abraham's generation and needs to be more fully identified.] Other Winner males about his age, said to be related to Abraham are: Isaac Sr. m. Hannah Searle 9 Nov 1776 in NJ (both from Bucks Co., PA) and Jacob m. Elizabeth Helling 29 Sep 1774 in NJ (both from Bucks Co., PA). [Isaac is brother to Abraham and Jacob is yet to be identified but certainly of Abraham's generation.] Other unaccounted Winner males include: Amos m. Rebeca Cooper 1 May 1779. [Not yet identified but certainly of Abraham's generation.] Isaac of Dover, Monmouth Co... [Abraham's brother.]" 5. See notes of the earliest "generic" Winner for a full transcript of the "The Ancestry & Descendants of James Winner of Sussex Co., N.J. & Lycoming Co., Pa.," first edition; Editor: Ernestine Siegel, 1906 Watrous Avenue, Tampa, Florida, 33606; 1969; revised 1970; privately printed with copy in my possession, Preface, pp. 1-15, and Bibliography. She has collected a tremendous amount of information and identified the early Winners centered around Bucks County in Southeast Pennsylvania near Philadelphia and in the adjoining western counties of New Jersey just across the the state line formed by the Delaware River. The following is a partial excerpt: "THE MT. HOLLY - NORTHHAMPTON WINNERS In the 1780s at Mt. Holly was living Stephen and his wife Mary Winner, who had a son Samuel. Also living there was Abraham Winner, the tavern-keeper. Abraham WINNER, Rev. Sold. of NEW JERSEY. C. S. Boyer's "Old Inns and Taverns of West Jersey" mentions "Abraham Winner whose house was located on the north side of Gaskill's lane (now Woodland, near the old Quaker Meeting house. On May 22, 1776 he gave a mortgage to Joseph Butterworth on his property, which had probably then been discontinued as a tavern." On Sept. 3, 1869 Abraham Winner had married Mary Hatcher, according to the register of St. Mary's Church, Burlington Co. The New Jersey Archives and History Bureau furnishes his war record: "Purchaser of Forage, Foragemaster General's Dept., stationed at Mt. Holly, Burlington Co., N.J., January l780 … contractor for Burlington Co. March 25 to December 15, 1782; delivered provisions and forage to the State Troops and Militia April-July 1782; boarded and nursed Capt. Jacob Cooper of Burlington Co. … 1782." On Oct. 27, 1780, Abraham Winner was bondsman on will of John Little, Galloway Twp., Gloucester Co., N.J. Sara Little was administratrix. In 1788 he was bondsman of Joseph Borden Jr. of Burlington Co. Witnesses were Joseph and Mary Potts. In 1787 Abraham Winner was listed as a voter in an election for the Assembly. (It is believed he died age 74 in Philadelphia in 1807 and is buried at the 2nd Baptist Church there.) On May 1, 1779 Amos Winner married Rebecca Cooper. On April 1, 1776 John Winner of Northhampton, Burlington Co, married Hannah Carr of Mt. Holly, d/o Quakers Caleb and Sara Carr. Hannah was born 1759, died 1778 and is buried with her child Samuel Winner in the Mt. Holly MM burial ground. Samuel Winner, born Mt. Holly 1835, s/o Stephen and Mary died December 8, 1861, a farmer of Southhampton Twp., Burlington Co., N.J. On March 25, 1862 Mary N. Winner, age 61, died in Southhampton Twp., born Ellisburg, N.J., d/o Samuel and Labylle (Thorn) Winner..." 6. "The Ancestry & Descendants of James Winner of Sussex Co., N.J. & Lycoming Co., Pa.," first edition; Editor: Ernestine Siegel, 1906 Watrous Avenue, Tampa, Florida, 33606; 1969; revised 1970, pp. 22-23; privately printed with copy in my possession. Ms. Siegel was a member of DAR. The following is part of a biography on James Winner who married Mary Parker and moved from Oxford Twp., Sussex, NJ to Lycoming, PA. (See notes of James Winner for the full transcript.) I don't believe the author had specific proof of the relationship between James and supposed brothers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; however, I believe as does the author that they are brothers: "...By legend, at the time James Winner migrated to Lycoming County, he had only two brothers still living, one in New Jersey, and one in Bucks County. Also by legend, he is said to have named his three sons for his three brothers. His elder brother was Abraham Winner of Mt. Holly, Burlington Co., New Jersey, an innkeeper and a New Jersey Revolutionary Soldier. The second brother Isaac was taxed at Middletown Township, Bucks Co., Pa. As early as 1779, although it is believed he was born in Burlington Co., N.J. The third brother, Jacob Winner, died in Southhampton Township, Bucks Co., Pa. in 1778. (Both Isaac and Jacob were weavers.) Dirck Hogeland signed bond for the estate. The father of James is considered to be Isaac Sr. who was also taxed in Middletown Twp., Bucks Co., Pa. In 1779 but then disappears from the tax lists. The mother of James is said to be Rebecca. His birth record eludes us as it is not known which side of the Delaware River he was born on. (His cousin James mentioned before, died in Warwick Township, Bucks Co, Pa. In 1796.) The marriage records of Isaac Jr. and Jacob Winner are found in the New Jersey Archives. The Winner family in Lycoming Co., Pa. has always been tied to the Winner family of Philadelphia, which included William Winner, the artist, and Septimus Winner, the composer. After James served his apprenticeship in Middletown Twp., he moved to Bristol Township where his uncle Joseph Winner lived. James was taxed there as a weaver in 1781, probably living in the home of Joseph. By tradition, this Joseph Winner of Bristol was third generation in America, born 1735 in New Jersey, son of Joseph, grandson of Capt. James. Joseph of Bristol was taylor, and had served in the Indian Wars in the 1750s. While James was in Bristol, one of Joseph's younger sons, Joseph born 1776 was only a small child. This 4th generation Joseph moved to Philadelphia and married Elizabeth Evans. His son Joseph, 5th generation, moved to Lycoming County in the 1840s, but had moved back to Philadelphia by 1850. However, on the 1850 census in Lycoming County is one Seth Winner, age 64 (born 1786) living in Porter Township with his wife Rebecca and son Robert. This family probably belongs to the Philadelphia branch also. After spending a year at Bristol, James Winner, the weaver, moved to Falls, Pa. and was taxed there in 1782 on two cows and a horse. Previously, in 1779 his uncle James' Estate was taxed at Falls. This elder James Winner served as a soldier in 1745, and again is listed as a soldier at Newton in 1756. From Falls, James Winner moved across the river to Oxford Furnace in Sussex County and married Widow Mary Collins, probably in 1785. She was born Mary Parker, Jr., daughter of Humphrey Parker, Jr., a Welsh Quaker from Gwynned, Pa., and his wife, Tamar Scott, whom he had married at the First Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia in 1744..." 7. Email received 23 Feb 2015 from (Dr.) Daniel F. Stramara, Jr., Rockhurst University, 1100 Rockhurst Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110, concerning his speculation of a possible son named Septimus as an additional son to Isaac and Rebecca Winner: "Kerry Petersen, Thank you for your reply. I will let you know what I track down regarding the 1830 Samuel Winner of Evesham Twp., Burlington Co., NJ and forward you the documentation. At least I know that I am not descended from the Winner Family of Butler Co., PA. I am almost certain that I am directly related to the Samuel Winner of Evesham, Burlington County, NJ. In 1830 he was age 40-49 (b. bet 1780-90) and he lived next door to Joseph and Abigail (Winner) Venable (see M19 Roll 80 p. 84). I am presuming that Abigail Winner was this Samuel Winner's sister. Samuel Winner married Mary Thorn 30 Mar 1813 Gloucester Co., by Methodist Minister. (His marriage date suggests a birth year before 1793 thus within the above 1830 Census time frame.) Abigail Winner married Joseph Venable 23 Feb 1816 Gloucester Co. by Justice of the Peace. In 1840 the same Samuel Winner, now age 50-59, lived in Waterford Twp., Gloucester Co., NJ (Roll 252 p. 23). Evesham Twp., Burlington Co and Waterford Twp., Gloucester Co. are adjoining townships and counties. My ancestor Joseph Venable was now also listed in Waterford Twp. in 1840. Significantly, in 1840 there was also a Samuel Winner living in Slippery Rock, Butler Co., PA age 40-49 (Roll 448 p. 8). This Samuel is the son of Septimus Winner of Donegal Twp., Butler Co., who devised a will 14 April 1841 (proved 14 Aug 1844), accessible at The 1830 Samuel Winner of Burlington Co., NJ in 1850 is now living in Delaware Twp., Camden County, NJ (Roll M432_445, p 138A). Part of Waterford Twp., Gloucester County became Delaware Twp., Camden County on 28 Feb 1844. In short, this Samuel Winner didn't move; rather, a new county was created and a new township accordingly named. Said Samuel Winner died 20 Dec 1861 in Camden County, NJ, aged 76 thus born 1785 matching the above mentioned time span. Allegedly his death certificate lists a Septimus Winner as his father and a Mary unknown as his mother. I will try to secure a copy of this record when I am in Trenton, NJ. Because there are in fact two Samuel Winners of different ages (each having children with different names), and each the son of a Septimus Winner (it seems highly unlikely one father named two sons differing by a few years, the same name unless Samuel was the middle name of one of them that then became the given name after the brother left), this suggests to me that there was an even earlier Septimus Winner after whom the Septimus Winner of Butler Co., PA (b. 1766 - d. 1844) and the Septimus Winner of Burlington Co., NJ (living 1795-1829 --?), were named. (For the property holdings of Septimus Winner of Northampton Twp., Burlington Co., NJ see To further argue for the existence of two contemporary Winner men named Septimus, a review of census records is helpful. A Septimus Winner appears in the 1840 PA Census for Donegal Twp., Butler Co., age 70-80, thus born bet. 1760-70. The same individual appears in the 1830 PA Census for Donegal Twp., Butler Co., age 60-70, thus born bet. 1760-70. This is obviously the Septimus Winner who devised the will in 1841 in Donegal Twp. and who died there in 1844. However, at the same time that a Septimus Winner is living in Donegal Twp., Butler Co., PA in 1830, it is highly probably that a Septimus Winner is living in Evesham Twp., Burlington Co., NJ. In the 1830 Census, living with Joseph and Abigail (Winner) Venable are an elderly couple: male age 70-80, thus born bet. 1750-60 and a female age 60-70, thus born bet. 1760-70. This elderly couple cannot be Joseph Venable's parents, for his father died in 1799 and his mother on 16 May 1826 (see Henrietta Brady Brown, "Some Venables of England and America" (Cincinnati, OH: Kinderton Press, 1961), 132; information which I have verified via primary documents). Because this elderly couple cannot be Joseph's parents (and no other Joseph Venable is living in Evesham at this time for this age bracket -- my Joseph fitting the male recorded as age 40-50, head of household), it goes to reason that this elderly couple are the parents of Abigail (Winner) Venable. Presuming that she is the sister of the next door neighbor Samuel Winner, whose death certificate lists his parents as Septimus Winner and Mary, I can only conclude that the elderly male living with Joseph and Abigail (Winner) Venable is none other than Septimus Winner, who last appeared by name in Burlington County records in 1829, just one year before the Census. N.B. I have not yet been able personally to secure a copy of Samuel Winner's death certificate so as to verify that it states Septimus Winner was his father, but I have no reason to doubt the e-mail stating such (29 May 2004), sent by his descendant, Mr. Dennis Boyles, who secured a copy. (I also have a copy of the typed letter Mr. Boyles sent to Kim Sechrist on 3 June 2004, stating the same.) In short, in 1830 there is a Septimus Winner living in Donegal Twp., Butler Co., PA born bet. 1760-70 as well as a Septimus Winner living in Evesham Twp., Burlington Co., NJ born bet. 1750-60, each having a son Samuel Winner who also accordingly fall within a ten year birth bracket difference. Regarding the existence of two contemporary Septimus Winners, the following obtains. It has understandably been conjectured that the Septimus Winner of Northampton Twp., Burlington Co., NJ might be the son of Abraham Winner, the tavern owner of the same county. However, if Septimus were so named due to his being a "seventh child (or son)" of Abraham, this is impossible given that Abraham Winner married Mary Thatcher 3 Sept 1769, whether this be Abraham's first or second marriage, given that I have identified this Septimus Winner as having been born between 1750-60 (and thus able to have been enrolled in the NJ militia in 1793). It seems plausible to me that this Septimus was Abraham's younger brother and hence could have been a seventh child, so named. I am unaware of claims regarding who the father is of the Septimus Winner of Butler Co., PA, born 1766, but perhaps that Septimus is the son of one of the NJ Septimus Winner's older brothers. In short the PA Septimus Winner (b. 1766) could be a nephew of the NJ Septimus Winner (b. 1750-1760), named in his honour. If the NJ Septimus Winner is Abraham's younger brother, this suggests Septimus is the seventh born child of Isaac of Bucks Co., PA, which is quite plausible. Oddly enough, it is plausible that the Septimus Winner of Butler Co., PA (b. 1766) is the son of Abraham Winner of Burlington Co., NJ. This Septimus Winner most probably is the one who married Mary Gaskill on 24 Mar 1808 in Burlington County, NJ (presumably as his second wife), he being 41 or 42 years old. Nevertheless, perhaps the elder Septimus married Mary Gaskill as a second (or even third) wife. To summarize, at present I see two possibilities: 1) A hitherto unknown Septimus Winner who is grandfather to the NJ and PA Septimus Winners; and 2) the NJ Septimus Winner being uncle to the PA Septimus Winner. No matter what the case, there must have been some significant "elder" Septimus Winner, because the name keeps reappearing in subsequent generations, e.g. the famous composer (1827-1902, though he himself was the 7th born child, but still this might be an acknowledgement of an earlier Winner naming tradition). Thanks for any feedback and further information. It really is quite a puzzle." | Winner, Abraham (I3047)
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| 4760 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The construction of this family is from several wills and other records (see other notes for those sources): Parents: John Clench (-1582) of Otterden and his wife Johan are identified in two documents. They are found in Eastling selling real property in the Kent Feet of Fines for 1530/31. In John's will of 1582, land in Eastling (near to Otterden) is part of his legacy. Assuming a marriage no later than 1530, then John would have been born bef. 1505 (age 25 or older) and Johann before 1511 (age 19 or older). John's will in Otterden of 1582 identifies six children -- three sons (Edward, John, and Anthony) and three daughters (Rabech, Benet, and Ane). The will names the wife of Edward as Rose as well as three daughters of Edward -- Jane, Thomason, and Benet. The will indicates that his son John has children, but for Anthony he only says heirs rather than children. Children (order unknown): A. [Vicar] John Clench (-1593). The connection as a son is probable but not fully proven. We know the Vicar's son Josias was named as a "cosen" in John's probable brother Anthony's 1609/10 will, which term probably included nephews in that era. We can also place Josias later in life in Eastling where he is buried and where also John of Otterden had legacies in his will. Vicar John would have been born around 1530 since he married his first wife bef. 1555. From his probable father John's 1582 will, we know that he had children (unnamed) in 1582. Since no other John Clinch of that era shows up in the nearby localities except Vicar John, it would lead us to conclude Vicar John to be John of Otterden's son. This John was named as the Vicar of the Tonge parish and is so named with that title in at least one marriage record and in his 24 Jun 1593 will -- in this marriage record, Vicar John marries an Otterden woman. In his will, his current wife Agnes, his son Josias, and his son-in-law Cadwallader Lewes are mentioned. Of the three sons of John of Otterden, all three die in in the same generation with Vicar John in 1593, Edward bef. 1596, and Anthony in 1609/10. Vicar John was most likely married at least three times: the first wife is unknown and the probable mother of his children; he married secondly Mary Bonnce; and lastly Agnes ___ who shows as his wife in his will. Wives and children: a. Unknown wife who died before 1583. Marriage was probably before 1555 when their son Josias was born: i. Josias Clench (1555-1632). Parish records show he marries Sara Sharp 8 May 1587 in Tonge and is buried 23 Dec 1632 in Eastling. His age is given in the burial record which calculates a birth in 1555. His wife Sara was probably born sometime before 1568 assuming she was 19 or older at the time of her marriage. She is buried 3 Oct 1602 in Eastling. They have at least three children all christened in Eastling: Jacob c. 20 May 1593, Henry c. 28 Mar 1596, and William c. 5 Aug 1599 and bur. 7 May 1670. Josias also shows up in Quarter Sessions in 1601 and 1606 in Eastling (alternately shown as "Istling"). In one of these records he is named as the Vicar of Eastling. ii. Sara Clench. Parish records show she marries Cadwallader Lewes (or Lewis) 11 Jul 1586 in Tonge. They have at least three children christened in Luddesdown: William c. 28 Dec 1587, Ursula c. 27 Dec 1589, and Thomas c. 2 Jul 1592. She was probably born before 1567 when she would have been 19 or older at the time of her marriage. From the will of her father, it appears she died before 24 Jun 1593 but after 2 Jul 1592 when her last child was christened. Cadwallader had a will dated 1595 in the Archdeaconry of Rochester (1595p IR 18.417 17). b. Mercy Bonnce who died before 1596. "Canterbury Marriage Licenses," by Joseph Meadows Cooper, p. 95: "John Clinche, vicar of Tong, and Mercy Bonnce of Otterden. April 3, 1583. She would have died before John's marriage to Agnes who shows as his wife in his 1593 will. c. Agnes ___ who died after 1596 when she is named in Vicar John's will. B. Edward Clench (about 1551 - before 1596) married Rose around 1571. They raised a family in Otterden ... Edward died sometime prior to 1596, for on May 27 of that year Rose married John Style in Otterden. Edward, Rose, and their three oldest daughters are named in Edward's father's will of 1582. Edward's daughter Margaret and son might be the same as the "goddaughter Margaret Clinch" and "my cosen Edward Clinch" mentioned in Edward's brother Anthony's 1609/10 will. Children of Edward & Rose Clenche, from the Otterden register: -Jane Clench (c. 15 May 1572) -Tomasson Clench (c. 7 Feb 1574) -John Clench ( c. 12 Aug 1575- bur. 3 Jun 1576) -Benet Clench (c. 15 Nov 1578) -Margarett Clinch (c. 13 Aug 1581) -Edward Clinch (c. 19 Jun 1586 - from 23 Feb 1647 to 21 Sep 1648) -Elizabeth Clench (c. 12 Apr 1589, Otterden, Kent, England, bur. 27 Mar 1591) C. Anthony (-1609/10). No wife or children are mentioned in his will, but he does name three Clinches -- goddaughter Margaret and "cosen" Edward who may both be his brother Edward's children; Josias who is Vicar John's son. Anthony is probably the youngest of the three sons since he is mentioned last in his father's will and that he dies 1609/10 versus Edward (bef. 1596) and John (1593). D. Rabech (deciphering of name from father's will uncertain) Clench. Married to Thomas Allen. E. Benet Clench. Married to Robert Barnes.[Note: Is Benet Harry mentioned in brother Anthony's 1609/10 will the same person as Benet Clench who married Robart Barnes and was in a second marriage to a Mr. Harry?] F. Ane Clench. Married to Richard Allen. Ane's father's 1582 will mention unnamed children but does name one son WIlliam Allen. 2. The will of John Clinch, Vicar of Tonge: Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RPM-4C6?mode=g&i=87&wc=M68K-PM9%3A250713701%2C25071920 (image 88 of 370) Source accessed 13 Jan 2016: "England, Kent, Wills and Probate, 1440-1881"; Archdeaconry of Canterbury Nuncupative Will of John Clinche/Clynce of Tonge, Kent, 1593, PRC/17/50/121b, PRC/16/101 C/8 Will written 24 Jun 1593, nuncapative -John Clynche clerk vycar of Tonge, Kent -his goods be divided into 2 parts -one part to wife Agnes -one part to son Josyas Clynche [Josias Clinch] and to the children of Cadwalladen Lewes clerk parson of Luddestowne? -witnesses Tobias Eylham and Goerge Jusyngham? | Agnes (I5098)
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| 4761 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The construction of this family is from several wills and other records (see other notes for those sources): Parents: John Clench (-1582) of Otterden and his wife Johan are identified in two documents. They are found in Eastling selling real property in the Kent Feet of Fines for 1530/31. In John's will of 1582, land in Eastling (near to Otterden) is part of his legacy. Assuming a marriage no later than 1530, then John would have been born bef. 1505 (age 25 or older) and Johann before 1511 (age 19 or older). John's will in Otterden of 1582 identifies six children -- three sons (Edward, John, and Anthony) and three daughters (Rabech, Benet, and Ane). The will names the wife of Edward as Rose as well as three daughters of Edward -- Jane, Thomason, and Benet. The will indicates that his son John has children, but for Anthony he only says heirs rather than children. Children (order unknown): A. [Vicar] John Clench (-1593). The connection as a son is probable but not fully proven. We know the Vicar's son Josias was named as a "cosen" in John's probable brother Anthony's 1609/10 will, which term probably included nephews in that era. We can also place Josias later in life in Eastling where he is buried and where also John of Otterden had legacies in his will. Vicar John would have been born around 1530 since he married his first wife bef. 1555. From his probable father John's 1582 will, we know that he had children (unnamed) in 1582. Since no other John Clinch of that era shows up in the nearby localities except Vicar John, it would lead us to conclude Vicar John to be John of Otterden's son. This John was named as the Vicar of the Tonge parish and is so named with that title in at least one marriage record and in his 24 Jun 1593 will -- in this marriage record, Vicar John marries an Otterden woman. In his will, his current wife Agnes, his son Josias, and his son-in-law Cadwallader Lewes are mentioned. Of the three sons of John of Otterden, all three die in in the same generation with Vicar John in 1593, Edward bef. 1596, and Anthony in 1609/10. Vicar John was most likely married at least three times: the first wife is unknown and the probable mother of his children; he married secondly Mary Bonnce; and lastly Agnes ___ who shows as his wife in his will. Wives and children: a. Unknown wife who died before 1583. Marriage was probably before 1555 when their son Josias was born: i. Josias Clench (1555-1632). Parish records show he marries Sara Sharp 8 May 1587 in Tonge and is buried 23 Dec 1632 in Eastling. His age is given in the burial record which calculates a birth in 1555. His wife Sara was probably born sometime before 1568 assuming she was 19 or older at the time of her marriage. She is buried 3 Oct 1602 in Eastling. They have at least three children all christened in Eastling: Jacob c. 20 May 1593, Henry c. 28 Mar 1596, and William c. 5 Aug 1599 and bur. 7 May 1670. Josias also shows up in Quarter Sessions in 1601 and 1606 in Eastling (alternately shown as "Istling"). In one of these records he is named as the Vicar of Eastling. ii. Sara Clench. Parish records show she marries Cadwallader Lewes (or Lewis) 11 Jul 1586 in Tonge. They have at least three children christened in Luddesdown: William c. 28 Dec 1587, Ursula c. 27 Dec 1589, and Thomas c. 2 Jul 1592. She was probably born before 1567 when she would have been 19 or older at the time of her marriage. From the will of her father, it appears she died before 24 Jun 1593 but after 2 Jul 1592 when her last child was christened. Cadwallader had a will dated 1595 in the Archdeaconry of Rochester (1595p IR 18.417 17). b. Mercy Bonnce who died before 1596. "Canterbury Marriage Licenses," by Joseph Meadows Cooper, p. 95: "John Clinche, vicar of Tong, and Mercy Bonnce of Otterden. April 3, 1583. She would have died before John's marriage to Agnes who shows as his wife in his 1593 will. c. Agnes ___ who died after 1596 when she is named in Vicar John's will. B. Edward Clench (about 1551 - before 1596) married Rose around 1571. They raised a family in Otterden ... Edward died sometime prior to 1596, for on May 27 of that year Rose married John Style in Otterden. Edward, Rose, and their three oldest daughters are named in Edward's father's will of 1582. Edward's daughter Margaret and son might be the same as the "goddaughter Margaret Clinch" and "my cosen Edward Clinch" mentioned in Edward's brother Anthony's 1609/10 will. Children of Edward & Rose Clenche, from the Otterden register: -Jane Clench (c. 15 May 1572) -Tomasson Clench (c. 7 Feb 1574) -John Clench ( c. 12 Aug 1575- bur. 3 Jun 1576) -Benet Clench (c. 15 Nov 1578) -Margarett Clinch (c. 13 Aug 1581) -Edward Clinch (c. 19 Jun 1586 - from 23 Feb 1647 to 21 Sep 1648) -Elizabeth Clench (c. 12 Apr 1589, Otterden, Kent, England, bur. 27 Mar 1591) C. Anthony (-1609/10). No wife or children are mentioned in his will, but he does name three Clinches -- goddaughter Margaret and "cosen" Edward who may both be his brother Edward's children; Josias who is Vicar John's son. Anthony is probably the youngest of the three sons since he is mentioned last in his father's will and that he dies 1609/10 versus Edward (bef. 1596) and John (1593). D. Rabech (deciphering of name from father's will uncertain) Clench. Married to Thomas Allen. E. Benet Clench. Married to Robert Barnes.[Note: Is Benet Harry mentioned in brother Anthony's 1609/10 will the same person as Benet Clench who married Robart Barnes and was in a second marriage to a Mr. Harry?] F. Ane Clench. Married to Richard Allen. Ane's father's 1582 will mention unnamed children but does name one son WIlliam Allen. | Bonce, Mercy (I5097)
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| 4762 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The construction of this family is from several wills and other records (see other notes for those sources): Parents: John Clench (-1582) of Otterden and his wife Johan are identified in two documents. They are found in Eastling selling real property in the Kent Feet of Fines for 1530/31. In John's will of 1582, land in Eastling (near to Otterden) is part of his legacy. Assuming a marriage no later than 1530, then John would have been born bef. 1505 (age 25 or older) and Johann before 1511 (age 19 or older). John's will in Otterden of 1582 identifies six children -- three sons (Edward, John, and Anthony) and three daughters (Rabech, Benet, and Ane). The will names the wife of Edward as Rose as well as three daughters of Edward -- Jane, Thomason, and Benet. The will indicates that his son John has children, but for Anthony he only says heirs rather than children. Children (order unknown): A. [Vicar] John Clench (-1593). The connection as a son is probable but not fully proven. We know the Vicar's son Josias was named as a "cosen" in John's probable brother Anthony's 1609/10 will, which term probably included nephews in that era. We can also place Josias later in life in Eastling where he is buried and where also John of Otterden had legacies in his will. Vicar John would have been born around 1530 since he married his first wife bef. 1555. From his probable father John's 1582 will, we know that he had children (unnamed) in 1582. Since no other John Clinch of that era shows up in the nearby localities except Vicar John, it would lead us to conclude Vicar John to be John of Otterden's son. This John was named as the Vicar of the Tonge parish and is so named with that title in at least one marriage record and in his 24 Jun 1593 will -- in this marriage record, Vicar John marries an Otterden woman. In his will, his current wife Agnes, his son Josias, and his son-in-law Cadwallader Lewes are mentioned. Of the three sons of John of Otterden, all three die in in the same generation with Vicar John in 1593, Edward bef. 1596, and Anthony in 1609/10. Vicar John was most likely married at least three times: the first wife is unknown and the probable mother of his children; he married secondly Mary Bonnce; and lastly Agnes ___ who shows as his wife in his will. Wives and children: a. Unknown wife who died before 1583. Marriage was probably before 1555 when their son Josias was born: i. Josias Clench (1555-1632). Parish records show he marries Sara Sharp 8 May 1587 in Tonge and is buried 23 Dec 1632 in Eastling. His age is given in the burial record which calculates a birth in 1555. His wife Sara was probably born sometime before 1568 assuming she was 19 or older at the time of her marriage. She is buried 3 Oct 1602 in Eastling. They have at least three children all christened in Eastling: Jacob c. 20 May 1593, Henry c. 28 Mar 1596, and William c. 5 Aug 1599 and bur. 7 May 1670. Josias also shows up in Quarter Sessions in 1601 and 1606 in Eastling (alternately shown as "Istling"). In one of these records he is named as the Vicar of Eastling. ii. Sara Clench. Parish records show she marries Cadwallader Lewes (or Lewis) 11 Jul 1586 in Tonge. They have at least three children christened in Luddesdown: William c. 28 Dec 1587, Ursula c. 27 Dec 1589, and Thomas c. 2 Jul 1592. She was probably born before 1567 when she would have been 19 or older at the time of her marriage. From the will of her father, it appears she died before 24 Jun 1593 but after 2 Jul 1592 when her last child was christened. Cadwallader had a will dated 1595 in the Archdeaconry of Rochester (1595p IR 18.417 17). b. Mercy Bonnce who died before 1596. "Canterbury Marriage Licenses," by Joseph Meadows Cooper, p. 95: "John Clinche, vicar of Tong, and Mercy Bonnce of Otterden. April 3, 1583. She would have died before John's marriage to Agnes who shows as his wife in his 1593 will. c. Agnes ___ who died after 1596 when she is named in Vicar John's will. B. Edward Clench (about 1551 - before 1596) married Rose around 1571. They raised a family in Otterden ... Edward died sometime prior to 1596, for on May 27 of that year Rose married John Style in Otterden. Edward, Rose, and their three oldest daughters are named in Edward's father's will of 1582. Edward's daughter Margaret and son might be the same as the "goddaughter Margaret Clinch" and "my cosen Edward Clinch" mentioned in Edward's brother Anthony's 1609/10 will. Children of Edward & Rose Clenche, from the Otterden register: -Jane Clench (c. 15 May 1572) -Tomasson Clench (c. 7 Feb 1574) -John Clench ( c. 12 Aug 1575- bur. 3 Jun 1576) -Benet Clench (c. 15 Nov 1578) -Margarett Clinch (c. 13 Aug 1581) -Edward Clinch (c. 19 Jun 1586 - from 23 Feb 1647 to 21 Sep 1648) -Elizabeth Clench (c. 12 Apr 1589, Otterden, Kent, England, bur. 27 Mar 1591) C. Anthony (-1609/10). No wife or children are mentioned in his will, but he does name three Clinches -- goddaughter Margaret and "cosen" Edward who may both be his brother Edward's children; Josias who is Vicar John's son. Anthony is probably the youngest of the three sons since he is mentioned last in his father's will and that he dies 1609/10 versus Edward (bef. 1596) and John (1593). D. Rabech (deciphering of name from father's will uncertain) Clench. Married to Thomas Allen. E. Benet Clench. Married to Robert Barnes.[Note: Is Benet Harry mentioned in brother Anthony's 1609/10 will the same person as Benet Clench who married Robart Barnes and was in a second marriage to a Mr. Harry?] F. Ane Clench. Married to Richard Allen. Ane's father's 1582 will mention unnamed children but does name one son WIlliam Allen. 2. Concerning the Josias Clinch: A. Find-My-Past Parish records: Josias Clinch and Sarah Sharp, married 8 May 1587 at Tonge, Kent. Josias Clinch, bur. 23 Dec 1632 at Eastling, Kent, aged 77. Sara Clinch, wife of Josias, bur. 3 Oct 1602 at Eastling, Kent. B. The following is found online at the National Archives in Kew: Quarter session at Canterbury 21 July 1601 "Similarly against Josiah Clynch, churchwarden of Eastling, for non-payment of 4s. 4d. to Arthur Francklyn, constable of the hundred of Faversham, owing for half a year at the feast of the nativity of St. John the Baptist 1601." Quarter session of 7 May 1606 "Peter Mase of 'Isling' [? Eastling], labourer, in £10, to appear and answer; sureties, Thomas Sturges and Josias Clynch of 'Isling', yeomen." C. The will of John Clinch, Vicar of Tonge, shows Josias Clinch as his son: Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RPM-4C6?mode=g&i=87&wc=M68K-PM9%3A250713701%2C25071920 (image 88 of 370) Source accessed 13 Jan 2016: "England, Kent, Wills and Probate, 1440-1881"; Archdeaconry of Canterbury Nuncupative Will of John Clinche/Clynce of Tonge, Kent, 1593, PRC/17/50/121b, PRC/16/101 C/8 Will written 24 Jun 1593, nuncapative -John Clynche clerk vycar of Tonge, Kent -his goods be divided into 2 parts -one part to wife Agnes -one part to son Josyas Clynche [Josias Clinch] and to the children of Cadwalladen Lewes clerk parson of Luddestowne? -witnesses Tobias Eylham and Goerge Jusyngham? D. Josias Clench (1555-1632). Parish records show he marries Sara Sharp 8 May 1587 in Tonge and is buried 23 Dec 1632 in Eastling. His age is given in the burial record which calculates a birth in 1555. His wife Sara was probably born sometime before 1568 assuming she was 19 or older at the time of her marriage. She is buried 3 Oct 1602 in Eastling. They have at least three children all christened in Eastling: Jacob c. 20 May 1593, Henry c. 28 Mar 1596, and William c. 5 Aug 1599 and bur. 7 May 1670. Josias also shows up in Quarter Sessions in 1601 and 1606 in Eastling (alternately shown as "Istling"). In one of these records he is named as the Vicar of Eastling. We have a connection in Eastling for the John Clench of Otterden who has legacies there in his 1582 will. | Isbell (I5096)
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| 4763 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The construction of this family is from several wills and other records (see other notes for those sources): Parents: John Clench (-1582) of Otterden and his wife Johan are identified in two documents. They are found in Eastling selling real property in the Kent Feet of Fines for 1530/31. In John's will of 1582, land in Eastling (near to Otterden) is part of his legacy. Assuming a marriage no later than 1530, then John would have been born bef. 1505 (age 25 or older) and Johann before 1511 (age 19 or older). John's will in Otterden of 1582 identifies six children -- three sons (Edward, John, and Anthony) and three daughters (Rabech, Benet, and Ane). The will names the wife of Edward as Rose as well as three daughters of Edward -- Jane, Thomason, and Benet. The will indicates that his son John has children, but for Anthony he only says heirs rather than children. Children (order unknown): A. [Vicar] John Clench (-1593). The connection as a son is probable but not fully proven. We know the Vicar's son Josias was named as a "cosen" in John's probable brother Anthony's 1609/10 will, which term probably included nephews in that era. We can also place Josias later in life in Eastling where he is buried and where also John of Otterden had legacies in his will. Vicar John would have been born around 1530 since he married his first wife bef. 1555. From his probable father John's 1582 will, we know that he had children (unnamed) in 1582. Since no other John Clinch of that era shows up in the nearby localities except Vicar John, it would lead us to conclude Vicar John to be John of Otterden's son. This John was named as the Vicar of the Tonge parish and is so named with that title in at least one marriage record and in his 24 Jun 1593 will -- in this marriage record, Vicar John marries an Otterden woman. In his will, his current wife Agnes, his son Josias, and his son-in-law Cadwallader Lewes are mentioned. Of the three sons of John of Otterden, all three die in in the same generation with Vicar John in 1593, Edward bef. 1596, and Anthony in 1609/10. Vicar John was most likely married at least three times: the first wife is unknown and the probable mother of his children; he married secondly Mary Bonnce; and lastly Agnes ___ who shows as his wife in his will. Wives and children: a. Unknown wife who died before 1583. Marriage was probably before 1555 when their son Josias was born: i. Josias Clench (1555-1632). Parish records show he marries Sara Sharp 8 May 1587 in Tonge and is buried 23 Dec 1632 in Eastling. His age is given in the burial record which calculates a birth in 1555. His wife Sara was probably born sometime before 1568 assuming she was 19 or older at the time of her marriage. She is buried 3 Oct 1602 in Eastling. They have at least three children all christened in Eastling: Jacob c. 20 May 1593, Henry c. 28 Mar 1596, and William c. 5 Aug 1599 and bur. 7 May 1670. Josias also shows up in Quarter Sessions in 1601 and 1606 in Eastling (alternately shown as "Istling"). In one of these records he is named as the Vicar of Eastling. ii. Sara Clench. Parish records show she marries Cadwallader Lewes (or Lewis) 11 Jul 1586 in Tonge. They have at least three children christened in Luddesdown: William c. 28 Dec 1587, Ursula c. 27 Dec 1589, and Thomas c. 2 Jul 1592. She was probably born before 1567 when she would have been 19 or older at the time of her marriage. From the will of her father, it appears she died before 24 Jun 1593 but after 2 Jul 1592 when her last child was christened. Cadwallader had a will dated 1595 in the Archdeaconry of Rochester (1595p IR 18.417 17). b. Mercy Bonnce who died before 1596. "Canterbury Marriage Licenses," by Joseph Meadows Cooper, p. 95: "John Clinche, vicar of Tong, and Mercy Bonnce of Otterden. April 3, 1583. She would have died before John's marriage to Agnes who shows as his wife in his 1593 will. c. Agnes ___ who died after 1596 when she is named in Vicar John's will. B. Edward Clench (about 1551 - before 1596) married Rose around 1571. They raised a family in Otterden ... Edward died sometime prior to 1596, for on May 27 of that year Rose married John Style in Otterden. Edward, Rose, and their three oldest daughters are named in Edward's father's will of 1582. Edward's daughter Margaret and son might be the same as the "goddaughter Margaret Clinch" and "my cosen Edward Clinch" mentioned in Edward's brother Anthony's 1609/10 will. Children of Edward & Rose Clenche, from the Otterden register: -Jane Clench (c. 15 May 1572) -Tomasson Clench (c. 7 Feb 1574) -John Clench ( c. 12 Aug 1575- bur. 3 Jun 1576) -Benet Clench (c. 15 Nov 1578) -Margarett Clinch (c. 13 Aug 1581) -Edward Clinch (c. 19 Jun 1586 - from 23 Feb 1647 to 21 Sep 1648) -Elizabeth Clench (c. 12 Apr 1589, Otterden, Kent, England, bur. 27 Mar 1591) C. Anthony (-1609/10). No wife or children are mentioned in his will, but he does name three Clinches -- goddaughter Margaret and "cosen" Edward who may both be his brother Edward's children; Josias who is Vicar John's son. Anthony is probably the youngest of the three sons since he is mentioned last in his father's will and that he dies 1609/10 versus Edward (bef. 1596) and John (1593). D. Rabech (deciphering of name from father's will uncertain) Clench. Married to Thomas Allen. E. Benet Clench. Married to Robert Barnes.[Note: Is Benet Harry mentioned in brother Anthony's 1609/10 will the same person as Benet Clench who married Robart Barnes and was in a second marriage to a Mr. Harry?] F. Ane Clench. Married to Richard Allen. Ane's father's 1582 will mention unnamed children but does name one son WIlliam Allen. 2. Canterbury Probate Records; Will for John Clench (Clynche) of Otterden made and probated 1582, Register Ref. PRC/17/44/281, Original Ref. PRC/16/78 C/15, four pages. Extraction of the will: - John Clench of the parish of Mounton now united with Otterden of the County of Kent, yeoman. - Will dated 6 July 1582 - Daughter Rabech wife of Thomas Allene - Daughter Benet late wife of Robart Barnes - Daughter Ane wife or Rychard Allen - Willym Allen the son of Rychard Allen my godson - The three daughters of Edward Clench my son and Rose his wife -- Jane, Thomasson, Benet. - All the children of John Clench my son. - All the children of Thomas Allen and Rabech his wife my daughter. - All the children of Robart Barnes and Benet his wife my daughter. - The rest of the children of Rychard Allen and Ane his wife except William. [See above for his legacy.] - Johan my wife -- named as executor. - Anthony my son and his heirs. - Some miscellaneous gifts to various people whom I have difficulty deciphering but seems to include: -servant Margaret Water -John Amies of Slade? -William Croffield? -John Swoth? -Marye Bucher? loving friend -church wardens of the parish of Otternden [Otterden] -iiii poore men [of parish of Otterden??] -every one of my godchildren - The legacies include the following locations which may have some bearing on other parishes to study: -land and wood called Stellys about 7 acres -Edward my son tenement called Frith and all the lands ... lying in the parish of Eastlynge [Eastling] -Edward also gets property in Otterden and Moynton -parish of Minster -wife Johan gets tenement at Eastling [in the occupacion of William Farmer?] -Johan property in Moynton?, Otterden, Stalisfyld, after her decease to son Edward -son Anthonye have water in the pond lyng in the ???? of that I have given unto Edward my sonne | Clench, Ane (I5092)
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| 4764 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The construction of this family is from several wills and other records (see other notes for those sources): Parents: John Clench (-1582) of Otterden and his wife Johan are identified in two documents. They are found in Eastling selling real property in the Kent Feet of Fines for 1530/31. In John's will of 1582, land in Eastling (near to Otterden) is part of his legacy. Assuming a marriage no later than 1530, then John would have been born bef. 1505 (age 25 or older) and Johann before 1511 (age 19 or older). John's will in Otterden of 1582 identifies six children -- three sons (Edward, John, and Anthony) and three daughters (Rabech, Benet, and Ane). The will names the wife of Edward as Rose as well as three daughters of Edward -- Jane, Thomason, and Benet. The will indicates that his son John has children, but for Anthony he only says heirs rather than children. Children (order unknown): A. [Vicar] John Clench (-1593). The connection as a son is probable but not fully proven. We know the Vicar's son Josias was named as a "cosen" in John's probable brother Anthony's 1609/10 will, which term probably included nephews in that era. We can also place Josias later in life in Eastling where he is buried and where also John of Otterden had legacies in his will. Vicar John would have been born around 1530 since he married his first wife bef. 1555. From his probable father John's 1582 will, we know that he had children (unnamed) in 1582. Since no other John Clinch of that era shows up in the nearby localities except Vicar John, it would lead us to conclude Vicar John to be John of Otterden's son. This John was named as the Vicar of the Tonge parish and is so named with that title in at least one marriage record and in his 24 Jun 1593 will -- in this marriage record, Vicar John marries an Otterden woman. In his will, his current wife Agnes, his son Josias, and his son-in-law Cadwallader Lewes are mentioned. Of the three sons of John of Otterden, all three die in in the same generation with Vicar John in 1593, Edward bef. 1596, and Anthony in 1609/10. Vicar John was most likely married at least three times: the first wife is unknown and the probable mother of his children; he married secondly Mary Bonnce; and lastly Agnes ___ who shows as his wife in his will. Wives and children: a. Unknown wife who died before 1583. Marriage was probably before 1555 when their son Josias was born: i. Josias Clench (1555-1632). Parish records show he marries Sara Sharp 8 May 1587 in Tonge and is buried 23 Dec 1632 in Eastling. His age is given in the burial record which calculates a birth in 1555. His wife Sara was probably born sometime before 1568 assuming she was 19 or older at the time of her marriage. She is buried 3 Oct 1602 in Eastling. They have at least three children all christened in Eastling: Jacob c. 20 May 1593, Henry c. 28 Mar 1596, and William c. 5 Aug 1599 and bur. 7 May 1670. Josias also shows up in Quarter Sessions in 1601 and 1606 in Eastling (alternately shown as "Istling"). In one of these records he is named as the Vicar of Eastling. ii. Sara Clench. Parish records show she marries Cadwallader Lewes (or Lewis) 11 Jul 1586 in Tonge. They have at least three children christened in Luddesdown: William c. 28 Dec 1587, Ursula c. 27 Dec 1589, and Thomas c. 2 Jul 1592. She was probably born before 1567 when she would have been 19 or older at the time of her marriage. From the will of her father, it appears she died before 24 Jun 1593 but after 2 Jul 1592 when her last child was christened. Cadwallader had a will dated 1595 in the Archdeaconry of Rochester (1595p IR 18.417 17). b. Mercy Bonnce who died before 1596. "Canterbury Marriage Licenses," by Joseph Meadows Cooper, p. 95: "John Clinche, vicar of Tong, and Mercy Bonnce of Otterden. April 3, 1583. She would have died before John's marriage to Agnes who shows as his wife in his 1593 will. c. Agnes ___ who died after 1596 when she is named in Vicar John's will. B. Edward Clench (about 1551 - before 1596) married Rose around 1571. They raised a family in Otterden ... Edward died sometime prior to 1596, for on May 27 of that year Rose married John Style in Otterden. Edward, Rose, and their three oldest daughters are named in Edward's father's will of 1582. Edward's daughter Margaret and son might be the same as the "goddaughter Margaret Clinch" and "my cosen Edward Clinch" mentioned in Edward's brother Anthony's 1609/10 will. Children of Edward & Rose Clenche, from the Otterden register: -Jane Clench (c. 15 May 1572) -Tomasson Clench (c. 7 Feb 1574) -John Clench ( c. 12 Aug 1575- bur. 3 Jun 1576) -Benet Clench (c. 15 Nov 1578) -Margarett Clinch (c. 13 Aug 1581) -Edward Clinch (c. 19 Jun 1586 - from 23 Feb 1647 to 21 Sep 1648) -Elizabeth Clench (c. 12 Apr 1589, Otterden, Kent, England, bur. 27 Mar 1591) C. Anthony (-1609/10). No wife or children are mentioned in his will, but he does name three Clinches -- goddaughter Margaret and "cosen" Edward who may both be his brother Edward's children; Josias who is Vicar John's son. Anthony is probably the youngest of the three sons since he is mentioned last in his father's will and that he dies 1609/10 versus Edward (bef. 1596) and John (1593). D. Rabech (deciphering of name from father's will uncertain) Clench. Married to Thomas Allen. E. Benet Clench. Married to Robert Barnes.[Note: Is Benet Harry mentioned in brother Anthony's 1609/10 will the same person as Benet Clench who married Robart Barnes and was in a second marriage to a Mr. Harry?] F. Ane Clench. Married to Richard Allen. Ane's father's 1582 will mention unnamed children but does name one son WIlliam Allen. 2. Canterbury Probate Records; Will for John Clench (Clynche) of Otterden made and probated 1582, Register Ref. PRC/17/44/281, Original Ref. PRC/16/78 C/15, four pages. Extraction of the will: - John Clench of the parish of Mounton now united with Otterden of the County of Kent, yeoman. - Will dated 6 July 1582 - Daughter Rabech wife of Thomas Allene - Daughter Benet late wife of Robart Barnes - Daughter Ane wife or Rychard Allen - Willym Allen the son of Rychard Allen my godson - The three daughters of Edward Clench my son and Rose his wife -- Jane, Thomasson, Benet. - All the children of John Clench my son. - All the children of Thomas Allen and Rabech his wife my daughter. - All the children of Robart Barnes and Benet his wife my daughter. - The rest of the children of Rychard Allen and Ane his wife except William. [See above for his legacy.] - Johan my wife -- named as executor. - Anthony my son and his heirs. - Some miscellaneous gifts to various people whom I have difficulty deciphering but seems to include: -servant Margaret Water -John Amies of Slade? -William Croffield? -John Swoth? -Marye Bucher? loving friend -church wardens of the parish of Otternden [Otterden] -iiii poore men [of parish of Otterden??] -every one of my godchildren - The legacies include the following locations which may have some bearing on other parishes to study: -land and wood called Stellys about 7 acres -Edward my son tenement called Frith and all the lands ... lying in the parish of Eastlynge [Eastling] -Edward also gets property in Otterden and Moynton -parish of Minster -wife Johan gets tenement at Eastling [in the occupacion of William Farmer?] -Johan property in Moynton?, Otterden, Stalisfyld, after her decease to son Edward -son Anthonye have water in the pond lyng in the ???? of that I have given unto Edward my sonne | Clench, Benet (I5091)
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| 4765 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The construction of this family is from several wills and other records (see other notes for those sources): Parents: John Clench (-1582) of Otterden and his wife Johan are identified in two documents. They are found in Eastling selling real property in the Kent Feet of Fines for 1530/31. In John's will of 1582, land in Eastling (near to Otterden) is part of his legacy. Assuming a marriage no later than 1530, then John would have been born bef. 1505 (age 25 or older) and Johann before 1511 (age 19 or older). John's will in Otterden of 1582 identifies six children -- three sons (Edward, John, and Anthony) and three daughters (Rabech, Benet, and Ane). The will names the wife of Edward as Rose as well as three daughters of Edward -- Jane, Thomason, and Benet. The will indicates that his son John has children, but for Anthony he only says heirs rather than children. Children (order unknown): A. [Vicar] John Clench (-1593). The connection as a son is probable but not fully proven. We know the Vicar's son Josias was named as a "cosen" in John's probable brother Anthony's 1609/10 will, which term probably included nephews in that era. We can also place Josias later in life in Eastling where he is buried and where also John of Otterden had legacies in his will. Vicar John would have been born around 1530 since he married his first wife bef. 1555. From his probable father John's 1582 will, we know that he had children (unnamed) in 1582. Since no other John Clinch of that era shows up in the nearby localities except Vicar John, it would lead us to conclude Vicar John to be John of Otterden's son. This John was named as the Vicar of the Tonge parish and is so named with that title in at least one marriage record and in his 24 Jun 1593 will -- in this marriage record, Vicar John marries an Otterden woman. In his will, his current wife Agnes, his son Josias, and his son-in-law Cadwallader Lewes are mentioned. Of the three sons of John of Otterden, all three die in in the same generation with Vicar John in 1593, Edward bef. 1596, and Anthony in 1609/10. Vicar John was most likely married at least three times: the first wife is unknown and the probable mother of his children; he married secondly Mary Bonnce; and lastly Agnes ___ who shows as his wife in his will. Wives and children: a. Unknown wife who died before 1583. Marriage was probably before 1555 when their son Josias was born: i. Josias Clench (1555-1632). Parish records show he marries Sara Sharp 8 May 1587 in Tonge and is buried 23 Dec 1632 in Eastling. His age is given in the burial record which calculates a birth in 1555. His wife Sara was probably born sometime before 1568 assuming she was 19 or older at the time of her marriage. She is buried 3 Oct 1602 in Eastling. They have at least three children all christened in Eastling: Jacob c. 20 May 1593, Henry c. 28 Mar 1596, and William c. 5 Aug 1599 and bur. 7 May 1670. Josias also shows up in Quarter Sessions in 1601 and 1606 in Eastling (alternately shown as "Istling"). In one of these records he is named as the Vicar of Eastling. ii. Sara Clench. Parish records show she marries Cadwallader Lewes (or Lewis) 11 Jul 1586 in Tonge. They have at least three children christened in Luddesdown: William c. 28 Dec 1587, Ursula c. 27 Dec 1589, and Thomas c. 2 Jul 1592. She was probably born before 1567 when she would have been 19 or older at the time of her marriage. From the will of her father, it appears she died before 24 Jun 1593 but after 2 Jul 1592 when her last child was christened. Cadwallader had a will dated 1595 in the Archdeaconry of Rochester (1595p IR 18.417 17). b. Mercy Bonnce who died before 1596. "Canterbury Marriage Licenses," by Joseph Meadows Cooper, p. 95: "John Clinche, vicar of Tong, and Mercy Bonnce of Otterden. April 3, 1583. She would have died before John's marriage to Agnes who shows as his wife in his 1593 will. c. Agnes ___ who died after 1596 when she is named in Vicar John's will. B. Edward Clench (about 1551 - before 1596) married Rose around 1571. They raised a family in Otterden ... Edward died sometime prior to 1596, for on May 27 of that year Rose married John Style in Otterden. Edward, Rose, and their three oldest daughters are named in Edward's father's will of 1582. Edward's daughter Margaret and son might be the same as the "goddaughter Margaret Clinch" and "my cosen Edward Clinch" mentioned in Edward's brother Anthony's 1609/10 will. Children of Edward & Rose Clenche, from the Otterden register: -Jane Clench (c. 15 May 1572) -Tomasson Clench (c. 7 Feb 1574) -John Clench ( c. 12 Aug 1575- bur. 3 Jun 1576) -Benet Clench (c. 15 Nov 1578) -Margarett Clinch (c. 13 Aug 1581) -Edward Clinch (c. 19 Jun 1586 - from 23 Feb 1647 to 21 Sep 1648) -Elizabeth Clench (c. 12 Apr 1589, Otterden, Kent, England, bur. 27 Mar 1591) C. Anthony (-1609/10). No wife or children are mentioned in his will, but he does name three Clinches -- goddaughter Margaret and "cosen" Edward who may both be his brother Edward's children; Josias who is Vicar John's son. Anthony is probably the youngest of the three sons since he is mentioned last in his father's will and that he dies 1609/10 versus Edward (bef. 1596) and John (1593). D. Rabech (deciphering of name from father's will uncertain) Clench. Married to Thomas Allen. E. Benet Clench. Married to Robert Barnes.[Note: Is Benet Harry mentioned in brother Anthony's 1609/10 will the same person as Benet Clench who married Robart Barnes and was in a second marriage to a Mr. Harry?] F. Ane Clench. Married to Richard Allen. Ane's father's 1582 will mention unnamed children but does name one son WIlliam Allen. 2. Canterbury Probate Records; Will for John Clench (Clynche) of Otterden made and probated 1582, Register Ref. PRC/17/44/281, Original Ref. PRC/16/78 C/15, four pages. Extraction of the will: - John Clench of the parish of Mounton now united with Otterden of the County of Kent, yeoman. - Will dated 6 July 1582 - Daughter Rabech wife of Thomas Allene - Daughter Benet late wife of Robart Barnes - Daughter Ane wife or Rychard Allen - Willym Allen the son of Rychard Allen my godson - The three daughters of Edward Clench my son and Rose his wife -- Jane, Thomasson, Benet. - All the children of John Clench my son. - All the children of Thomas Allen and Rabech his wife my daughter. - All the children of Robart Barnes and Benet his wife my daughter. - The rest of the children of Rychard Allen and Ane his wife except William. [See above for his legacy.] - Johan my wife -- named as executor. - Anthony my son and his heirs. - Some miscellaneous gifts to various people whom I have difficulty deciphering but seems to include: -servant Margaret Water -John Amies of Slade? -William Croffield? -John Swoth? -Marye Bucher? loving friend -church wardens of the parish of Otternden [Otterden] -iiii poore men [of parish of Otterden??] -every one of my godchildren - The legacies include the following locations which may have some bearing on other parishes to study: -land and wood called Stellys about 7 acres -Edward my son tenement called Frith and all the lands ... lying in the parish of Eastlynge [Eastling] -Edward also gets property in Otterden and Moynton -parish of Minster -wife Johan gets tenement at Eastling [in the occupacion of William Farmer?] -Johan property in Moynton?, Otterden, Stalisfyld, after her decease to son Edward -son Anthonye have water in the pond lyng in the ???? of that I have given unto Edward my sonne | Clench, Rabech (I5090)
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| 4766 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The construction of this family is from several wills and other records (see other notes for those sources): Parents: John Clench (-1582) of Otterden and his wife Johan are identified in two documents. They are found in Eastling selling real property in the Kent Feet of Fines for 1530/31. In John's will of 1582, land in Eastling (near to Otterden) is part of his legacy. Assuming a marriage no later than 1530, then John would have been born bef. 1505 (age 25 or older) and Johann before 1511 (age 19 or older). John's will in Otterden of 1582 identifies six children -- three sons (Edward, John, and Anthony) and three daughters (Rabech, Benet, and Ane). The will names the wife of Edward as Rose as well as three daughters of Edward -- Jane, Thomason, and Benet. The will indicates that his son John has children, but for Anthony he only says heirs rather than children. Children (order unknown): A. [Vicar] John Clench (-1593). The connection as a son is probable but not fully proven. We know the Vicar's son Josias was named as a "cosen" in John's probable brother Anthony's 1609/10 will, which term probably included nephews in that era. We can also place Josias later in life in Eastling where he is buried and where also John of Otterden had legacies in his will. Vicar John would have been born around 1530 since he married his first wife bef. 1555. From his probable father John's 1582 will, we know that he had children (unnamed) in 1582. Since no other John Clinch of that era shows up in the nearby localities except Vicar John, it would lead us to conclude Vicar John to be John of Otterden's son. This John was named as the Vicar of the Tonge parish and is so named with that title in at least one marriage record and in his 24 Jun 1593 will -- in this marriage record, Vicar John marries an Otterden woman. In his will, his current wife Agnes, his son Josias, and his son-in-law Cadwallader Lewes are mentioned. Of the three sons of John of Otterden, all three die in in the same generation with Vicar John in 1593, Edward bef. 1596, and Anthony in 1609/10. Vicar John was most likely married at least three times: the first wife is unknown and the probable mother of his children; he married secondly Mary Bonnce; and lastly Agnes ___ who shows as his wife in his will. Wives and children: a. Unknown wife who died before 1583. Marriage was probably before 1555 when their son Josias was born: i. Josias Clench (1555-1632). Parish records show he marries Sara Sharp 8 May 1587 in Tonge and is buried 23 Dec 1632 in Eastling. His age is given in the burial record which calculates a birth in 1555. His wife Sara was probably born sometime before 1568 assuming she was 19 or older at the time of her marriage. She is buried 3 Oct 1602 in Eastling. They have at least three children all christened in Eastling: Jacob c. 20 May 1593, Henry c. 28 Mar 1596, and William c. 5 Aug 1599 and bur. 7 May 1670. Josias also shows up in Quarter Sessions in 1601 and 1606 in Eastling (alternately shown as "Istling"). In one of these records he is named as the Vicar of Eastling. ii. Sara Clench. Parish records show she marries Cadwallader Lewes (or Lewis) 11 Jul 1586 in Tonge. They have at least three children christened in Luddesdown: William c. 28 Dec 1587, Ursula c. 27 Dec 1589, and Thomas c. 2 Jul 1592. She was probably born before 1567 when she would have been 19 or older at the time of her marriage. From the will of her father, it appears she died before 24 Jun 1593 but after 2 Jul 1592 when her last child was christened. Cadwallader had a will dated 1595 in the Archdeaconry of Rochester (1595p IR 18.417 17). b. Mercy Bonnce who died before 1596. "Canterbury Marriage Licenses," by Joseph Meadows Cooper, p. 95: "John Clinche, vicar of Tong, and Mercy Bonnce of Otterden. April 3, 1583. She would have died before John's marriage to Agnes who shows as his wife in his 1593 will. c. Agnes ___ who died after 1596 when she is named in Vicar John's will. B. Edward Clench (about 1551 - before 1596) married Rose around 1571. They raised a family in Otterden ... Edward died sometime prior to 1596, for on May 27 of that year Rose married John Style in Otterden. Edward, Rose, and their three oldest daughters are named in Edward's father's will of 1582. Edward's daughter Margaret and son might be the same as the "goddaughter Margaret Clinch" and "my cosen Edward Clinch" mentioned in Edward's brother Anthony's 1609/10 will. Children of Edward & Rose Clenche, from the Otterden register: -Jane Clench (c. 15 May 1572) -Tomasson Clench (c. 7 Feb 1574) -John Clench ( c. 12 Aug 1575- bur. 3 Jun 1576) -Benet Clench (c. 15 Nov 1578) -Margarett Clinch (c. 13 Aug 1581) -Edward Clinch (c. 19 Jun 1586 - from 23 Feb 1647 to 21 Sep 1648) -Elizabeth Clench (c. 12 Apr 1589, Otterden, Kent, England, bur. 27 Mar 1591) C. Anthony (-1609/10). No wife or children are mentioned in his will, but he does name three Clinches -- goddaughter Margaret and "cosen" Edward who may both be his brother Edward's children; Josias who is Vicar John's son. Anthony is probably the youngest of the three sons since he is mentioned last in his father's will and that he dies 1609/10 versus Edward (bef. 1596) and John (1593). D. Rabech (deciphering of name from father's will uncertain) Clench. Married to Thomas Allen. E. Benet Clench. Married to Robert Barnes.[Note: Is Benet Harry mentioned in brother Anthony's 1609/10 will the same person as Benet Clench who married Robart Barnes and was in a second marriage to a Mr. Harry?] F. Ane Clench. Married to Richard Allen. Ane's father's 1582 will mention unnamed children but does name one son WIlliam Allen. 2. The will of John's son Anthony Clench does not mention a wife or children but does call an Edward Clinch and a Josias Clinch as cousins and Margaret Clinch as a goddaughter. All three are most likely nephews and a niece -- children of his siblings. Website wills.canterbury-cathedral.org accessed 5 Jan 2016 shows: Anthony Clinch of Otterden with a will made in 1609 and probated in 1610; register ref. PRC/17/59/180; orig. ref. PRC/16/137 C/17. The will is viewable online at Family Search's "England, Kent, Wills and Probate, 1440-1881; Archdeaconry of Canterbury; Wills 1610, A-F" images 110-113 of 199 at the following link accessed 5 Jan 2016 The will is difficult to read but my transcription of the main points is as follows: Anthony Clinche of Otterden, probated 1610 Date of will: March 3, 1609. Even though not stated, it may be old style dating March 3, 1609/10. Body to be buried at the discretion of his executor. Money given to the poor of the Otterden parish. Bequeaths to the widow Swale, "my cosen Edward Clinch," "my cosen Josias Clinch," Richard Boldork?, John Baldorke?, Joan Baldork?, "my goddaughter Margaret Clinch," Bennet Harry, Josias Clinch [again], "my cosen Edward Clinches wife," "my sister(?) Swale(?)," "Ann Baldorf? widdow," John Collard, Widdow Swale [again]. Appoints John Baker (Clark or Clerk?) and Widdow Swale as executors. Witnesses: John Collard, Nicholas Baker, Joane Dober. [Note: Is Benet Harry the same person as Benet Clench who married Robart Barnes and by 1609 was in a second marriage to a Mr. Harry?] 3. Concerning the Josias Clinch found in the will of Anthony Clinch as transcribed above: A. Find-My-Past Parish records: Josias Clinch and Sarah Sharp, married 8 May 1587 at Tonge, Kent. Josias Clinch, bur. 23 Dec 1632 at Eastling, Kent, aged 77. Sara Clinch, wife of Josias, bur. 3 Oct 1602 at Eastling, Kent. B. The following is found online at the National Archives in Kew: Quarter session at Canterbury 21 July 1601 "Similarly against Josiah Clynch, churchwarden of Eastling, for non-payment of 4s. 4d. to Arthur Francklyn, constable of the hundred of Faversham, owing for half a year at the feast of the nativity of St. John the Baptist 1601." Quarter session of 7 May 1606 "Peter Mase of 'Isling' [? Eastling], labourer, in £10, to appear and answer; sureties, Thomas Sturges and Josias Clynch of 'Isling', yeomen." C. The will of John Clinch, Vicar of Tonge, shows Josias Clinch as his son: Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RPM-4C6?mode=g&i=87&wc=M68K-PM9%3A250713701%2C25071920 (image 88 of 370) Source accessed 13 Jan 2016: "England, Kent, Wills and Probate, 1440-1881"; Archdeaconry of Canterbury Nuncupative Will of John Clinche/Clynce of Tonge, Kent, 1593, PRC/17/50/121b, PRC/16/101 C/8 Will written 24 Jun 1593, nuncapative -John Clynche clerk vycar of Tonge, Kent -his goods be divided into 2 parts -one part to wife Agnes -one part to son Josyas Clynche [Josias Clinch] and to the children of Cadwalladen Lewes clerk parson of Luddestowne? -witnesses Tobias Eylham and Goerge Jusyngham? D. Josias Clench (1555-1632). Parish records show he marries Sara Sharp 8 May 1587 in Tonge and is buried 23 Dec 1632 in Eastling. His age is given in the burial record which calculates a birth in 1555. His wife Sara was probably born sometime before 1568 assuming she was 19 or older at the time of her marriage. She is buried 3 Oct 1602 in Eastling. They have at least three children all christened in Eastling: Jacob c. 20 May 1593, Henry c. 28 Mar 1596, and William c. 5 Aug 1599 and bur. 7 May 1670. Josias also shows up in Quarter Sessions in 1601 and 1606 in Eastling (alternately shown as "Istling"). In one of these records he is named as the Vicar of Eastling. We have a connection in Eastling for the John Clench of Otterden who has legacies there in his 1582 will. 4. Canterbury Probate Records; Will for John Clench (Clynche) of Otterden made and probated 1582, Register Ref. PRC/17/44/281, Original Ref. PRC/16/78 C/15, four pages. Extraction of the will: - John Clench of the parish of Mounton now united with Otterden of the County of Kent, yeoman. - Will dated 6 July 1582 - Daughter Rabech wife of Thomas Allene - Daughter Benet late wife of Robart Barnes - Daughter Ane wife or Rychard Allen - Willym Allen the son of Rychard Allen my godson - The three daughters of Edward Clench my son and Rose his wife -- Jane, Thomasson, Benet. - All the children of John Clench my son. - All the children of Thomas Allen and Rabech his wife my daughter. - All the children of Robart Barnes and Benet his wife my daughter. - The rest of the children of Rychard Allen and Ane his wife except William. [See above for his legacy.] - Johan my wife -- named as executor. - Anthony my son and his heirs. - Some miscellaneous gifts to various people whom I have difficulty deciphering but seems to include: -servant Margaret Water -John Amies of Slade? -William Croffield? -John Swoth? -Marye Bucher? loving friend -church wardens of the parish of Otternden [Otterden] -iiii poore men [of parish of Otterden??] -every one of my godchildren - The legacies include the following locations which may have some bearing on other parishes to study: -land and wood called Stellys about 7 acres -Edward my son tenement called Frith and all the lands ... lying in the parish of Eastlynge [Eastling] -Edward also gets property in Otterden and Moynton -parish of Minster -wife Johan gets tenement at Eastling [in the occupacion of William Farmer?] -Johan property in Moynton?, Otterden, Stalisfyld, after her decease to son Edward -son Anthonye have water in the pond lyng in the ???? of that I have given unto Edward my sonne 5. Constructed Family Groups from extracted Otterden Church Records. See notes of Edward Clench (1532-1596 for detailed extractions. Source: FHL film 1752060, item 2, Archdeacon's Transcript of Otterden, Kent, England; begins 1570 but missing 1588/9, 1594/5, 1606/7, 1622/23, 1640/41-1660/61, 1681/82, 1682/83; half year only ofr 1673/74, 1677/78, 1679/80, 1683/84, 1727/28, 1750/51. Source: FHL film 1736930, item 1, Bishop's Transcript of Otterden; begins 1603 but missing 1604/5-1611/12, 1613/14, 1621/22, 1627/28, 1640/41, 1642/43-1661/62, 1675/76, 1696/97...: Family 1: Edward and Rose. Edward Clench listed as churchwarden 1581. Edward Clinch signs transcript 1593/94. John Style of Ulcombe wydower and Rose Clynch of Otterynden wydow were maryd 27 May 1596. [Edward is probable son of John and Johan Clench.] 15 May 1572, Jane Clench, c., d/o Edward Clenche and Roose his wyffe. 7 Feb 1573/4, Thomassen Clench, c., d/o Edward Clench and Roose his wyffe. 6 Nov 1575, John Clench, c., s/o Edward Clench and Roose his wyffe; bur. 10 Jun 1576. s/o Edward Clench a child. 16 Nov 1578, Benet Clench, c., d/o Edward Clench and Roose his wyffe. 13 Aug 1581, Margriett Clench c., d/o Edward Clench and Roose his wyffe. 19 Jun 1586, Edward Clench, c., s/o Edward Clench and Roose his wyffe. 12 Apr 1589, Elizabeth Clench, c. d/o Edward Clench and Roose his wyffe; bur. 27 Mar 1591, a child, d/o Edward Clench and Roose his wyffe. Family 2: John and ???. 12 Sep 1582, John Clenche was buryed 12 Sep 1582.. 12 Aug 1575, Rebecca Clench, a maiden, bur., d/o of John Clench. Family 3: Anthony and ???. Antonie Clench, housekeeper, bur. 23 Mar 1609/10. [Probable brother of Edward of Family 1 above and son of John and Johan Clench.] Family 3: Edward and [Elizabeth Pierce]: 15 Dec 1611, "the sonne of Edwarde Clenche still borne" bur. 12 Jul 1614, Elisabeth Clenche, c., d/o Edwarde Cle. [Clench]. 27 Jan 1639/40, Edward Gurner and Elizabeth Clench, mar. 11 May 1617, Sara Clinche, c., d/o Edward Clynche. 25 Nov 1620, Edwarde Clynce [Clynche], c., s/o Edwarde. 8 Feb 1623/4, James Clynche, c., s/o Edwarde Clynch. Probably the James Clinch, bur. 12 Aug 1688. 4 Aug 1627, Anne Clynche, c., d/o Edwarde Clynch. 10 Jul 1631, Solomon & Symon, c., sons/o Edwarde Clench. Family 4: Edward and Mary. Edward Clinch, yeamon, bur. 10 Jan 1665/6. 12 Dec 1661, John, bur., s/o Edward Clinch. 6 Aug 1663, Samuell, c., s/o Edward Clinch and Mary his wife. 10 Jan 1665/6, Elizabeth, c., s/o Edward Clinch and Mary his wife Family 5: Solomon and Frances: Solomon Clinch Parish Clark poor bur. [no day or month] 1684/5. 15 May 1663, William, c., s/o Solomon Clinch and ffrances his wife; bur. 31 May 1663, William, infant s/o of Solomon. 1 May 1664, William, c., s/o Solomon Clinch and ffrances his wife 4 Aug 1667, Edward, c., s/o Soloman Clynch and ffrances his wife 13 Nov 1672, Thomas, c., s/o of Solomon Clinch & ffrancis his wife. Probable child b. say 1674, Solomon (no recorded christening). Solomon Clinch a youth bur. 28 Oct 1690. Probable child b. say 1676 (no recorded christening). Sarah, bur. 28 May 1689, d/o of Wid. Clinch. Unplaced Individuals 29 Jul 1673, James Clinch, bur., s/o Wm. Clinch. 31 Jan 1676/7, Edward Clinch and Ruth Stamford, marr. | Clench, Anthony (I5088)
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| 4767 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The construction of this family is from several wills and other records (see other notes for those sources): Parents: John Clench (-1582) of Otterden and his wife Johan are identified in two documents. They are found in Eastling selling real property in the Kent Feet of Fines for 1530/31. In John's will of 1582, land in Eastling (near to Otterden) is part of his legacy. Assuming a marriage no later than 1530, then John would have been born bef. 1505 (age 25 or older) and Johann before 1511 (age 19 or older). John's will in Otterden of 1582 identifies six children -- three sons (Edward, John, and Anthony) and three daughters (Rabech, Benet, and Ane). The will names the wife of Edward as Rose as well as three daughters of Edward -- Jane, Thomason, and Benet. The will indicates that his son John has children, but for Anthony he only says heirs rather than children. Children (order unknown): A. [Vicar] John Clench (-1593). The connection as a son is probable but not fully proven. We know the Vicar's son Josias was named as a "cosen" in John's probable brother Anthony's 1609/10 will, which term probably included nephews in that era. We can also place Josias later in life in Eastling where he is buried and where also John of Otterden had legacies in his will. Vicar John would have been born around 1530 since he married his first wife bef. 1555. From his probable father John's 1582 will, we know that he had children (unnamed) in 1582. Since no other John Clinch of that era shows up in the nearby localities except Vicar John, it would lead us to conclude Vicar John to be John of Otterden's son. This John was named as the Vicar of the Tonge parish and is so named with that title in at least one marriage record and in his 24 Jun 1593 will -- in this marriage record, Vicar John marries an Otterden woman. In his will, his current wife Agnes, his son Josias, and his son-in-law Cadwallader Lewes are mentioned. Of the three sons of John of Otterden, all three die in in the same generation with Vicar John in 1593, Edward bef. 1596, and Anthony in 1609/10. Vicar John was most likely married at least three times: the first wife is unknown and the probable mother of his children; he married secondly Mary Bonnce; and lastly Agnes ___ who shows as his wife in his will. Wives and children: a. Unknown wife who died before 1583. Marriage was probably before 1555 when their son Josias was born: i. Josias Clench (1555-1632). Parish records show he marries Sara Sharp 8 May 1587 in Tonge and is buried 23 Dec 1632 in Eastling. His age is given in the burial record which calculates a birth in 1555. His wife Sara was probably born sometime before 1568 assuming she was 19 or older at the time of her marriage. She is buried 3 Oct 1602 in Eastling. They have at least three children all christened in Eastling: Jacob c. 20 May 1593, Henry c. 28 Mar 1596, and William c. 5 Aug 1599 and bur. 7 May 1670. Josias also shows up in Quarter Sessions in 1601 and 1606 in Eastling (alternately shown as "Istling"). In one of these records he is named as the Vicar of Eastling. ii. Sara Clench. Parish records show she marries Cadwallader Lewes (or Lewis) 11 Jul 1586 in Tonge. They have at least three children christened in Luddesdown: William c. 28 Dec 1587, Ursula c. 27 Dec 1589, and Thomas c. 2 Jul 1592. She was probably born before 1567 when she would have been 19 or older at the time of her marriage. From the will of her father, it appears she died before 24 Jun 1593 but after 2 Jul 1592 when her last child was christened. Cadwallader had a will dated 1595 in the Archdeaconry of Rochester (1595p IR 18.417 17). b. Mercy Bonnce who died before 1596. "Canterbury Marriage Licenses," by Joseph Meadows Cooper, p. 95: "John Clinche, vicar of Tong, and Mercy Bonnce of Otterden. April 3, 1583. She would have died before John's marriage to Agnes who shows as his wife in his 1593 will. c. Agnes ___ who died after 1596 when she is named in Vicar John's will. B. Edward Clench (about 1551 - before 1596) married Rose around 1571. They raised a family in Otterden ... Edward died sometime prior to 1596, for on May 27 of that year Rose married John Style in Otterden. Edward, Rose, and their three oldest daughters are named in Edward's father's will of 1582. Edward's daughter Margaret and son might be the same as the "goddaughter Margaret Clinch" and "my cosen Edward Clinch" mentioned in Edward's brother Anthony's 1609/10 will. Children of Edward & Rose Clenche, from the Otterden register: -Jane Clench (c. 15 May 1572) -Tomasson Clench (c. 7 Feb 1574) -John Clench ( c. 12 Aug 1575- bur. 3 Jun 1576) -Benet Clench (c. 15 Nov 1578) -Margarett Clinch (c. 13 Aug 1581) -Edward Clinch (c. 19 Jun 1586 - from 23 Feb 1647 to 21 Sep 1648) -Elizabeth Clench (c. 12 Apr 1589, Otterden, Kent, England, bur. 27 Mar 1591) C. Anthony (-1609/10). No wife or children are mentioned in his will, but he does name three Clinches -- goddaughter Margaret and "cosen" Edward who may both be his brother Edward's children; Josias who is Vicar John's son. Anthony is probably the youngest of the three sons since he is mentioned last in his father's will and that he dies 1609/10 versus Edward (bef. 1596) and John (1593). D. Rabech (deciphering of name from father's will uncertain) Clench. Married to Thomas Allen. E. Benet Clench. Married to Robert Barnes.[Note: Is Benet Harry mentioned in brother Anthony's 1609/10 will the same person as Benet Clench who married Robart Barnes and was in a second marriage to a Mr. Harry?] F. Ane Clench. Married to Richard Allen. Ane's father's 1582 will mention unnamed children but does name one son WIlliam Allen. 2. Website of Roy L. Hales "John and Joan Clench sold a house and 20 acres in Eastling during 1531/1532 (Michael Zell (ed.) "Kent Feet of Fines: Henry VIII," Kent Archaeological Society, Part II, item 1103. Is this our John?: National Archives Kew (not digitalized) C 1/622/22 [http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7476962} Description: Short title: Clynche v Lacy. Plaintiffs: John Clynche. Defendants: Richard Lacy. Subject: The manor of Brodhurst [Bredhurst?] which William a Wood mortgaged to defendant. Kent ? John's will (PRC16/78/6) from Otterden 1582 mentions his wife Joan [and several children]" 3. Canterbury Probate Records; Will for John Clench (Clynche) of Otterden made and probated 1582, Register Ref. PRC/17/44/281, Original Ref. PRC/16/78 C/15, four pages. Extraction of the will: - John Clench of the parish of Mounton now united with Otterden of the County of Kent, yeoman. - Will dated 6 July 1582 - Daughter Rabech wife of Thomas Allene - Daughter Benet late wife of Robart Barnes - Daughter Ane wife or Rychard Allen - Willym Allen the son of Rychard Allen my godson - The three daughters of Edward Clench my son and Rose his wife -- Jane, Thomasson, Benet. - All the children of John Clench my son. - All the children of Thomas Allen and Rabech his wife my daughter. - All the children of Robart Barnes and Benet his wife my daughter. - The rest of the children of Rychard Allen and Ane his wife except William. [See above for his legacy.] - Johan my wife -- named as executor. - Anthony my son and his heirs. - Some miscellaneous gifts to various people whom I have difficulty deciphering but seems to include: -servant Margaret Water -John Amies of Slade? -William Croffield? -John Swoth? -Marye Bucher? loving friend -church wardens of the parish of Otternden [Otterden] -iiii poore men [of parish of Otterden??] -every one of my godchildren - The legacies include the following locations which may have some bearing on other parishes to study: -land and wood called Stellys about 7 acres -Edward my son tenement called Frith and all the lands ... lying in the parish of Eastlynge [Eastling] -Edward also gets property in Otterden and Moynton -parish of Minster -wife Johan gets tenement at Eastling [in the occupacion of William Farmer?] -Johan property in Moynton?, Otterden, Stalisfyld, after her decease to son Edward -son Anthonye have water in the pond lyng in the ???? of that I have given unto Edward my sonne | Johan (I5087)
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| 4768 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The construction of this family is from several wills and other records (see other notes for those sources): Parents: John Clench (-1582) of Otterden and his wife Johan are identified in two documents. They are found in Eastling selling real property in the Kent Feet of Fines for 1530/31. In John's will of 1582, land in Eastling (near to Otterden) is part of his legacy. Assuming a marriage no later than 1530, then John would have been born bef. 1505 (age 25 or older) and Johann before 1511 (age 19 or older). John's will in Otterden of 1582 identifies six children -- three sons (Edward, John, and Anthony) and three daughters (Rabech, Benet, and Ane). The will names the wife of Edward as Rose as well as three daughters of Edward -- Jane, Thomason, and Benet. The will indicates that his son John has children, but for Anthony he only says heirs rather than children. Children (order unknown): A. [Vicar] John Clench (-1593). The connection as a son is probable but not fully proven. We know the Vicar's son Josias was named as a "cosen" in John's probable brother Anthony's 1609/10 will, which term probably included nephews in that era. We can also place Josias later in life in Eastling where he is buried and where also John of Otterden had legacies in his will. Vicar John would have been born around 1530 since he married his first wife bef. 1555. From his probable father John's 1582 will, we know that he had children (unnamed) in 1582. Since no other John Clinch of that era shows up in the nearby localities except Vicar John, it would lead us to conclude Vicar John to be John of Otterden's son. This John was named as the Vicar of the Tonge parish and is so named with that title in at least one marriage record and in his 24 Jun 1593 will -- in this marriage record, Vicar John marries an Otterden woman. In his will, his current wife Agnes, his son Josias, and his son-in-law Cadwallader Lewes are mentioned. Of the three sons of John of Otterden, all three die in in the same generation with Vicar John in 1593, Edward bef. 1596, and Anthony in 1609/10. Vicar John was most likely married at least three times: the first wife is unknown and the probable mother of his children; he married secondly Mary Bonnce; and lastly Agnes ___ who shows as his wife in his will. Wives and children: a. Unknown wife who died before 1583. Marriage was probably before 1555 when their son Josias was born: i. Josias Clench (1555-1632). Parish records show he marries Sara Sharp 8 May 1587 in Tonge and is buried 23 Dec 1632 in Eastling. His age is given in the burial record which calculates a birth in 1555. His wife Sara was probably born sometime before 1568 assuming she was 19 or older at the time of her marriage. She is buried 3 Oct 1602 in Eastling. They have at least three children all christened in Eastling: Jacob c. 20 May 1593, Henry c. 28 Mar 1596, and William c. 5 Aug 1599 and bur. 7 May 1670. Josias also shows up in Quarter Sessions in 1601 and 1606 in Eastling (alternately shown as "Istling"). In one of these records he is named as the Vicar of Eastling. ii. Sara Clench. Parish records show she marries Cadwallader Lewes (or Lewis) 11 Jul 1586 in Tonge. They have at least three children christened in Luddesdown: William c. 28 Dec 1587, Ursula c. 27 Dec 1589, and Thomas c. 2 Jul 1592. She was probably born before 1567 when she would have been 19 or older at the time of her marriage. From the will of her father, it appears she died before 24 Jun 1593 but after 2 Jul 1592 when her last child was christened. Cadwallader had a will dated 1595 in the Archdeaconry of Rochester (1595p IR 18.417 17). b. Mercy Bonnce who died before 1596. "Canterbury Marriage Licenses," by Joseph Meadows Cooper, p. 95: "John Clinche, vicar of Tong, and Mercy Bonnce of Otterden. April 3, 1583. She would have died before John's marriage to Agnes who shows as his wife in his 1593 will. c. Agnes ___ who died after 1596 when she is named in Vicar John's will. B. Edward Clench (about 1551 - before 1596) married Rose around 1571. They raised a family in Otterden ... Edward died sometime prior to 1596, for on May 27 of that year Rose married John Style in Otterden. Edward, Rose, and their three oldest daughters are named in Edward's father's will of 1582. Edward's daughter Margaret and son might be the same as the "goddaughter Margaret Clinch" and "my cosen Edward Clinch" mentioned in Edward's brother Anthony's 1609/10 will. Children of Edward & Rose Clenche, from the Otterden register: -Jane Clench (c. 15 May 1572) -Tomasson Clench (c. 7 Feb 1574) -John Clench ( c. 12 Aug 1575- bur. 3 Jun 1576) -Benet Clench (c. 15 Nov 1578) -Margarett Clinch (c. 13 Aug 1581) -Edward Clinch (c. 19 Jun 1586 - from 23 Feb 1647 to 21 Sep 1648) -Elizabeth Clench (c. 12 Apr 1589, Otterden, Kent, England, bur. 27 Mar 1591) C. Anthony (-1609/10). No wife or children are mentioned in his will, but he does name three Clinches -- goddaughter Margaret and "cosen" Edward who may both be his brother Edward's children; Josias who is Vicar John's son. Anthony is probably the youngest of the three sons since he is mentioned last in his father's will and that he dies 1609/10 versus Edward (bef. 1596) and John (1593). D. Rabech (deciphering of name from father's will uncertain) Clench. Married to Thomas Allen. E. Benet Clench. Married to Robert Barnes.[Note: Is Benet Harry mentioned in brother Anthony's 1609/10 will the same person as Benet Clench who married Robart Barnes and was in a second marriage to a Mr. Harry?] F. Ane Clench. Married to Richard Allen. Ane's father's 1582 will mention unnamed children but does name one son WIlliam Allen. 2. Website of Roy L. Hales "John and Joan Clench sold a house and 20 acres in Eastling during 1531/1532 (Michael Zell (ed.) "Kent Feet of Fines: Henry VIII," Kent Archaeological Society, Part II, item 1103. Is this our John?: National Archives Kew (not digitalized) C 1/622/22 [http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7476962} Description: Short title: Clynche v Lacy. Plaintiffs: John Clynche. Defendants: Richard Lacy. Subject: The manor of Brodhurst [Bredhurst?] which William a Wood mortgaged to defendant. Kent ? John's will (PRC16/78/6) from Otterden 1582 mentions his wife Joan [and several children]" 3. The will of John's son Anthony Clench does not mention a wife or children but does call an Edward Clinch and a Josias Clinch as cousins and Margaret Clinch as a goddaughter. All three are most likely nephews and a niece -- children of his siblings. Website wills.canterbury-cathedral.org accessed 5 Jan 2016 shows: Anthony Clinch of Otterden with a will made in 1609 and probated in 1610; register ref. PRC/17/59/180; orig. ref. PRC/16/137 C/17. The will is viewable online at Family Search's "England, Kent, Wills and Probate, 1440-1881; Archdeaconry of Canterbury; Wills 1610, A-F" images 110-113 of 199 at the following link accessed 5 Jan 2016 The will is difficult to read but my transcription of the main points is as follows: Anthony Clinche of Otterden, probated 1610 Date of will: March 3, 1609. Even though not stated, it may be old style dating March 3, 1609/10. Body to be buried at the discretion of his executor. Money given to the poor of the Otterden parish. Bequeaths to the widow Swale, "my cosen Edward Clinch," "my cosen Josias Clinch," Richard Boldork?, John Baldorke?, Joan Baldork?, "my goddaughter Margaret Clinch," Bennet Harry, Josias Clinch [again], "my cosen Edward Clinches wife," "my sister(?) Swale(?)," "Ann Baldorf? widdow," John Collard, Widdow Swale [again]. Appoints John Baker (Clark or Clerk?) and Widdow Swale as executors. Witnesses: John Collard, Nicholas Baker, Joane Dober. [Note: Is Benet Harry the same person as Benet Clench who married Robart Barnes and by 1609 was in a second marriage to a Mr. Harry?] 4. Concerning the Josias Clinch found in the will of Anthony Clinch as transcribed above: A. Find-My-Past Parish records: Josias Clinch and Sarah Sharp, married 8 May 1587 at Tonge, Kent. Josias Clinch, bur. 23 Dec 1632 at Eastling, Kent, aged 77. Sara Clinch, wife of Josias, bur. 3 Oct 1602 at Eastling, Kent. B. The following is found online at the National Archives in Kew: Quarter session at Canterbury 21 July 1601 "Similarly against Josiah Clynch, churchwarden of Eastling, for non-payment of 4s. 4d. to Arthur Francklyn, constable of the hundred of Faversham, owing for half a year at the feast of the nativity of St. John the Baptist 1601." Quarter session of 7 May 1606 "Peter Mase of 'Isling' [? Eastling], labourer, in £10, to appear and answer; sureties, Thomas Sturges and Josias Clynch of 'Isling', yeomen." C. The will of John Clinch, Vicar of Tonge, shows Josias Clinch as his son: Link: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RPM-4C6?mode=g&i=87&wc=M68K-PM9%3A250713701%2C25071920 (image 88 of 370) Source accessed 13 Jan 2016: "England, Kent, Wills and Probate, 1440-1881"; Archdeaconry of Canterbury Nuncupative Will of John Clinche/Clynce of Tonge, Kent, 1593, PRC/17/50/121b, PRC/16/101 C/8 Will written 24 Jun 1593, nuncapative -John Clynche clerk vycar of Tonge, Kent -his goods be divided into 2 parts -one part to wife Agnes -one part to son Josyas Clynche [Josias Clinch] and to the children of Cadwalladen Lewes clerk parson of Luddestowne? -witnesses Tobias Eylham and Goerge Jusyngham? D. Josias Clench (1555-1632). Parish records show he marries Sara Sharp 8 May 1587 in Tonge and is buried 23 Dec 1632 in Eastling. His age is given in the burial record which calculates a birth in 1555. His wife Sara was probably born sometime before 1568 assuming she was 19 or older at the time of her marriage. She is buried 3 Oct 1602 in Eastling. They have at least three children all christened in Eastling: Jacob c. 20 May 1593, Henry c. 28 Mar 1596, and William c. 5 Aug 1599 and bur. 7 May 1670. Josias also shows up in Quarter Sessions in 1601 and 1606 in Eastling (alternately shown as "Istling"). In one of these records he is named as the Vicar of Eastling. We have a connection in Eastling for the John Clench of Otterden who has legacies there in his 1582 will. 6. Email from Roy L Hales dated 23 Jan 2016 "I think the John & Johann Clinch from Eastling real estate deal of 1530/31 and John's will 1582 are the same couple." Roy also found the following: "There is a John Clynch in the subsidy roll in the 14th year of King Henry VIII (22 April 1523 - 21 April 1524). He paid 4 pence (James Greenstreet, "Subsidy Roll for the Hundred of Faversham, for Ao 14 Henry VIII," Archaeologica Cantiana, Vol XII, 1878, p. 426)." He also notes Eastling is in Faversham Hundred. He also notes he has extensive documentation from the town of Faversham itself, and sees no Clynches, so he believes this entry pertains to one of the outlying parishes -- perhaps Eastling. In my research, I see Milton Regis (the modern name of Milton) is not in the Faversham Hundred, so Eastling could be a better option. I concur that the Eastling real estate John or 1530 is our 1582 man even though there is the remote possibility there was another couple of this name. Having extracted the Eastling church records, it is evident it was a very small parish with some years having no marriages or maybe only a half dozen baptisms -- so the odds of two similarly named couples would be slim. As for our John being the son of Thomas and Katherine: We know John was the older of the two sons, John and Thomas, named in Thomas' 1495 will. Their father William is dead by then and their mother is remarried, so the latest he would be born would be circa about 1590. If he is however the same John as the Act of 1508 for John Clench of Milton, then he may have reached his majority of 21 at that time making a birth of about 1487, which would make him 95 at time of death. A definite possibility but some room for some doubt. It doesn't work so well if Thomas' John is not our John because the timeframe doesn't work so well for the early John to be the father of the later John. 7. A court case, unfortunately not digitalized, appears to relate to one of John's sons. National Archives Kew (C 43/10/56) Parties: Cranmer v Clenche Subject: Proceedings on recognizance of debt. Leysdown, rent; Otterden and Monkton County: Kent 29 Elzabeth I (about 1587) 8. John Clenche listed in the following 1559 Otterden probate "William Goodin of the parishe of Otterden 15 March 1559, husbandman. To be buried within the parryshe churcheyarde of Otterden. To Alice my wyfe the best bed furnished and thone halfe of my moveable goodes and cattells and corne vppon the grounde and every yere 13s. 4d. out of all my landes. Also for the time that she shalbe wedowe one chamber lieng in the west side of my house withe fier and flete. I will my brother in lawe Markes Furminger whome I make mine executor shall have the other half of my goodes etc to the vse of my two sones James and Harrie and shall deliver to them when 21 by even porcens. If they both die then to my two dawghters Mary and Dorathie. To my sonne James all my lands and tenements in the parishes of Otterden and Mounten (sic) when 21 and he shall paie vnto Harrie my other sonne £20, when 21 £10 and the other 40s. a yere (Power of distress for him and the daughters). I will myne executor shall have the government of bothe my sonnes until 21. I will Alice my wyfe shall have the occupienge of all my landes and tenements vntill the feaste of St. Michaell next and I make her oversear. Witnesses: John Ady, Stephen Rooke, John Clenche, John Silver. Proved 26 September 1560 by Mark Furmynger executor. (309a Parker I)." 9. Kent Archaelogical Society "Kent Feet of Fines" "24 Henry VIII (CP 25(2) 21/127) (Easter) [This equates to 22 Apr 1532 to 21 Apr 1533 with Easter being 13 Apr 1533.] 1103. Jn Clynche & wife Joan to Thos & Pet Grenstret & Thos Moyle. Mess & 20a land in Eastling. £40. (24)" DEATH: 1. Canterbury Probate Records; Will for John Clench (Clynche) of Otterden made and probated 1582, Register Ref. PRC/17/44/281, Original Ref. PRC/16/78 C/15, four pages. Extraction of the will: - John Clench of the parish of Mounton now united with Otterden of the County of Kent, yeoman. - Will dated 6 July 1582 - Daughter Rabech wife of Thomas Allene - Daughter Benet late wife of Robart Barnes - Daughter Ane wife or Rychard Allen - Willym Allen the son of Rychard Allen my godson - The three daughters of Edward Clench my son and Rose his wife -- Jane, Thomasson, Benet. - All the children of John Clench my son. - All the children of Thomas Allen and Rabech his wife my daughter. - All the children of Robart Barnes and Benet his wife my daughter. - The rest of the children of Rychard Allen and Ane his wife except William. [See above for his legacy.] - Johan my wife -- named as executor. - Anthony my son and his heirs. - Some miscellaneous gifts to various people whom I have difficulty deciphering but seems to include: -servant Margaret Water -John Amies of Slade? -William Croffield? -John Swoth? -Marye Bucher? loving friend -church wardens of the parish of Otternden [Otterden] -iiii poore men [of parish of Otterden??] -every one of my godchildren - The legacies include the following locations which may have some bearing on other parishes to study: -land and wood called Stellys about 7 acres -Edward my son tenement called Frith and all the lands ... lying in the parish of Eastlynge [Eastling] -Edward also gets property in Otterden and Moynton -parish of Minster -wife Johan gets tenement at Eastling [in the occupacion of William Farmer?] -Johan property in Moynton?, Otterden, Stalisfyld, after her decease to son Edward -son Anthonye have water in the pond lyng in the ???? of that I have given unto Edward my sonne | Clench, John (I5086)
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| 4769 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The correct name for this individual and the make up of children is uncertain and conflicted. The names Hans Peter or Johann appear erroneous and Hans Adam seems to be the best option. Family researcher Rose Green has pioneered and led the research into this question. I quote first the two published German sources, then Rose's appraisal of the validity of the information these sources present, and then finally some comments on the correct father: A. Published German Sources: a. "DGB" = FHL book 943.D2dg, vol. 175, "Deutsches Geschlechtebuch/Hessisches Geschlechterbuch," by Hermann Thutewohl, (1977), pp. 252-255, provides a study of Hessian Römers which includes our American branch as follows. The same material is found in the "Hessian Lineage Book," vol. 20, 1977, publisher of CA Starke, Limburg an der Lahn. (Translation courtesy of Rose Green.) The book is German which I translate to English. Dates are European style day - month - year. Symbols: * = birth/christening; oo = married; + = death. The numbering system is per the book which I place in [brackets] for clarity: [Vb] Hans Peter Römer, * ... 11. 7. 1642, + Geisenbach 21. 3. 1730, bur. Weinheim 23. 3. 1730; named "the old Römer," owner of a "Hof" (farm/land with buildings) in Geisenbach; oo ... 20. 1. 1671 Margarethe Reinig, * ..., + Geisenbach 3. 2. 1719. Children born in Geisenbach: 1. Anna, * (calculated) 1671, + ..., Godmother on 22. 1. 1685. 2. Margarethe, * (calculated) 1673, + ..., oo ... Johann Nikolaus Schütz from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 3. Maria Margarethe, * 18. 11. 1674, + ..., Godmother on 10. 11. 1691; oo ... Hans Nikolaus Schuh from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 4. Johannes, * 10. 1. 1678, [s. VIb] 5. Johann Jakob, * 13. 11. 1681, [s. VIc, Schwetzinger main branch] 6. Eva, * 7. 2. 1685, + ... 7. Eva Elisabeth, * 8. 5. 1687, + ... 8. Anna Barbara, * 6. 5. 1688, + ...; oo ... 17. 11. 1705 ... moved to Schimbach. 9. Gertrud, * 26. 5. 1690, + ... 1758; oo ... Johann Jakob Brecht from Ober Mumbach, * ..., + ... b. "FM" = The book "Familienbuch Mörlenbach," by Dr. Otto Wagner, 1994: - 2857 m. vor 1670 Joh. Römer, Geisenbach, bei ihm dient 1683 Jakob Drϋber, 1721 Zeuge fϋr Verkauf von 1 1/2 Huben [383a] an [2669], u Anna N.N. Kdr.: (viell.) - Margarete, m. vor 1692 [3365†] - Anna, 1685 Pate [b. 1695] - Anna Margarete, 1683 Pate [1695], m. Ober-Absteinach 2.2.1695 Peter Helfrich of Unter-Absteinach. - Joh. Jakob, b. 13.11.1681, m. 17.11.1705 Kath. - Joh. Adam, m. Ober-Absteinach 7.6.1706 Elis. - Eva, *7.2.1685 - Eva Elis., b. Vöckelsbach ~~luth. Birkenau 5./12.5.1687 B. Rose Green's comments and analysis of the above two records with her own research into the church records of our Geisenbach branch of the Roemer family with Johannes Roemer, b. 1678, as a child. She prefaces her comments on the children by saying: "The only way to figure this out is to look at the primary sources -- making a decision based on secondary information that may or may not be correct isn't going to really solve the problem. I believe, without having the records right in front of me, that some individuals were discovered via marriage records and then other people discovered the same individuals via christening records. Even though the family lived in one concentrated area, the records are scattered through several different church books (i.e. geographically) and across more than one religion. The "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" is going to look primarily at Catholic records, since Moerlenbach is Catholic. The DGB seems to use both Lutheran records and some land records (the second of which I don't have access to). So I do think that at least one child is perhaps duplicated in this family. But we want to be very, very careful to make sure we don't eliminate a real person, either. But I do think that Maria Margaretha and Margaretha are the same person." a. Rose's comments regarding the DGB with some rearranging in the order of children: - Parents: Hans (Adam) Römer m. Margaretha Reinig in Geisenbach with children as follows. The first five children are from the Wald-Michelbach church records (Lutheran) and are certain: 1. Maria Margaretha, b. 18 Nov 1674, daughter of Hans Remer and Margaretha (godmother Margaretha wife of Hans Jorg Rehm, smith of Birkenau). 2. Johannes Remi, b. 10 Jan 1678, son of Hanss Remi (Römer) of Geisenbach, and wife Margaretha. Godfather was Hans Reinig, Wilhelm Reinig's son of Geisenbach (i.e. the uncle). 3. Johann Jakob Rheme, b. 13 Nov 1681, son of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha his wife. Godfather was Hans Jacob Erhardt/Erhanger/Erhanyer? of Geisenbach (the name is extremely difficult to read). 4. Eva Rheme, b. 7 Feb 1685, daughter of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva, wife or daughter of Niclaus Erhardt of Geisenbach. 5. Eva Elisabeth Rheme, b. 8 May 1687, daughter of Hans Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva the ? of Nicolaus Reinig of Geisenbach. [See note below about the confusion in birthdates of 5 or 8 May.] - Rose's comments of the other children that show up in the DGB: 6. Anna, abt 1671 (DGB). This lists her as a godmother on 22 Jan 1685. I presume she is named as the daughter of Hans Roemer of Geisenbach here; I would like to see the record for myself (the DGB however does not say where and for whom she was a godmother.) 7. Margarethe, b. abt 1673, married to Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach, son of Hans Nikolaus Schütz of Geisenbach, about 1692 and had three children whose births are recorded in the Lutheran church book of Wald-Michelbach for Birkenau as well as the Familienbuch Moerlenbach. Her son was godfather to Johann Michael Roemer of Birkenau (the son of Johannes Roemer). Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach was godfather to another of Johannes Roemer's children, Johann Nikolaus (1712). The record explicitly says that this man is the brother-in-law of Johannes Roemer. So yes, I believe this one! Most likely the same as #1 above. 8. Maria Margarethe, b. 18 Nov 1674, was a godmother on 10 Nov 1691 (where? DGB doesn't list it), and married "Hans Nikolaus Schuh of Geisenbach." She looks awfully like #7 to me. In a place with a population of less than 100 people, are there really two different individuals named Hans Nikolaus Schuh and Hans Nikolaus Schütz, both married to Margaretha Romer? Most likely the same as #1 and #7. 9. Anna Barbara, b. 6 May 1688 (from DGB): this looks awfully like the girl born in Gras-Ellenbach to Hans and Catharina Romer. 10. Gertrud, b. 26 May 1690, married Johann Jacob Brecht of Ober Mumbach (according to the DGB). I'm not saying this can't be her, but I didn't see a Gertrud in the book. b. Comments regarding on the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna. Moerlenbach is adjacent to Birkenau and was largely Catholic; however, both Lutherans and people from the Birkenau parish wandered over there, and so some of them show up in their records too. As you can see, there is some overlap with the HGB, but they aren't completely congruent. The children this book lists are as such: 1. Yes: Margaretha, married bef 1692 (this would be the one who married Joh. Nikolaus Schutz; so far, so good). 2. Yes: Anna, a godmother in 1685 (same as above; would like to see this, but if they are naming her as the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach, then I'm cool with that. I just would like to know who she is being godmother to, as those often happen among close family members.) 3. Maybe: Anna Margaretha, godmother in 1683 (to whom, and where?); married Peter Helferich of Unter-Abtsteinach on 2 Feb 1695 in Ober-Abtsteinach. (That is a Catholic place.) This should be independently verified in the original marriage record (i.e. that she is the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach in specific), since I didn't find her in the birth records. Another child in this family, Johannes, had a second wife was also a Helferich, and also Catholic. 4. Yes: Johann Jakob, b. 13 Nov 1681. According to the Moerlenbach book, he married Anna Katerina Reinig of Schimbach on 17 Nov 1705 in Schimbach, and had a number of children, the first ones in Schimbach and later ones in Schwetzingen. Yes, this son is correct. 5. No: Joh. Adam, married 7 Jun 1706 Elisabeth daughter of Adam Heckman in Ober-Abtsteinach (Catholic). Hmm ... Sorry, I didn't see that person in Geisenbach. Perhaps they are confusing him with the one born in Schönmattenwag in 1678? There are so many people running around with this same name in a small area, but definitely not in Geisenbach. 6. Yes: Eva, b. 7 Feb 1685. Yes, this is correct. 7. Yes: Eva Elisabeth, b. 5 May 1687. Yes, she is in the church record, too, although it is Wald-Michelbach (with village Geisenbach) that she appears. I don't know why the FM says that she was born in Voelkelsbach and christened 12 May 1687 in Birkenau. The date on the church record is very difficult to read, and perhaps it really is 5 and not 8. I see that she was christened the 12th, but the actual record says nothing about Voekelsbach. C. Rose's comments as to who is the correct father of our Roemer family of Geisenbach and of his marriage: a. "I did have a chance to look at the Birkenau film again, but unfortunately I didn't find anything new on it. I also didn't find any other suggestions to explain the Hans Peter Roemer shown in DGB. Seriously, in all the records I see, he is not the father in this family. He's either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer. I've been to Geisenbach -- there are three houses and one of them is new since the 1600s. There is zero mention of Hans Peter Roemer in Geisenbach in this time period in the church records. I think that the only way to solve this problem is to access some land or court or civil records, but they are not on microfilm. Maybe if I live there again, I'll have a look; I just don't know how to get at something like that from here, or even what exactly it is I need." b. "Regarding the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna." c. The DGB also lists a specific marriage date for him, which if found would likely give more information about him -- but this church record cannot be found (i.e. the parish records for marriages as they presently stand begin in 1671 after the supposed marriage date). The wife's maiden name of Reinig, however, appears to be accurate, as Wilhelm Reinig of Geisenbach does indeed have a daughter Margareta of the right age, and other children of Reinig serve as godparents to Hans (?) Roemer's children. d. I have doubts about the name of Johannes Roemer's father. The parents listed in Familysearch as of May 2015 (apparently based on the DGB info) are Hans Peter Roemer and Margaretha Reinig. When I went to verify this in the actual primary documents, I could not. The father listed in the birth entries of Johannes and his siblings is consistently either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer (with spelling variations on the last name; spelling didn't matter as much in the 1600s as in the 2010s). For Johann Jacob, Johannes's brother, the priest started to write someone else's name, then crossed it out and wrote Hans Adam. Eva's father is also listed as Hans Adam. There were two other Hans Adam Roemers bearing children in the parish at this time as well, which meant that delineation had to be clear in the records. One is having children at the same time in Schlierbach (another village in the same parish) -- meanwhile, our family is living in Geisenbach. I suppose it's *possible* that the priest mis-wrote the name--twice. But at the same time, this is the primary document there. I could find no trace of existing marriage records for this time and place, either microfilmed by the LDS church or otherwise, which is too bad, since it would clear up the problem easily. Possible explanations for this discrepancy: i. The pastor got confused and wrote down Hans Adam because there were so many of them, when really he was thinking of a different name. ii. The DGB data is based on land/court/occupational records instead of church records, and there were either errors in these records, or the researcher made some inaccurate assumptions. iii. I found a birth entry for a Hans Peter Roemer in the Birkenau parish record which could, by a bit of a stretch, fit in the right generation to be father to Johannes. Perhaps the researcher wanted to make this fit, so the supposition was made. However, there is also the record of the birth of a Hans Adam Roemer in the Waldmichelbach records for an even better age fit. (Both parishes covered the Geisenbach and Mengelbach areas.) Who knows which of the three Hans Adams it was. iv. There really is a marriage record squirreled away in an archive somewhere that no one (not even the historians writing about family records in Birkenau today) know about. e. In reviewing the DGB for the Ober Mengelbach Branch of Römers, we do find this family grouping with an Adam Römer who the right age to possibly be the Hans Adam Römer we are seeking. DGB provides no other information on him except for the birth date of 21 Jan 1646. Linking him for now would be premature without further corroborating evidence, but the information from DGB is as follows [see the notes of the earliest Römer in my database for the full DGB abstract]: ". Hans Römer, *Ober Mengelbach about 1620, + in the same place before 1695, mayor (Schultheiß), and owner of the Koch farm in Ober Mengelbach, oo Katharina (Cadel?), * (unknown), +20 Feb 1695 Ober Mengelbach. Children, born in Ober Mengelbach: 1. Adam, *21 Jan 1646, + unknown 2. Margaretha, *14 Aug 1648, + unknown 3. Johann Michael, * 1657, see VIa" D. Rose's comments on three of the children: "Some of these children may be one and the same person. We have an Anna, a Margaretha, and an Anna Margaretha. Anna Margaretha and Margaretha can't be the same person as they are married to different people at the same time. I suppose there's a chance that Anna and Anna Margaretha are the same person, but they may still be three distinct individuals." 2. Family researcher Rose Green reports (May 2015) the following two additional pieces of information: A. She has not had any success in finding the 1671 reported marriage of Hans Adam Roemer and Margaretha Reinig in Wald-Michelbach or Birkenau. She postulates that another book to look in for the generation of Hans (Adam?) Romer (and maybe that 1671 marriage?) is Rimbach. In 1693, French soldiers came in and purposely destroyed the church books in Rimbach; however, Rose indicates she saw a note somewhere that from 1636-1660s, Rimbach folks went up to Gronau, so that is also an option to look at. We may just be caught by those soldiers' vandalism, though. B. In addition to the Hans (Adam?) Roemer in Geisenbach, there was a Hans Roemer having children in Schönmattenwag and also Schlierbach at the same time. They are all in the Wald-Michelbach church records. But only one family that she can see in Geisenbach. Geisenbach is tiny. In 1829, there were 3 houses and 27 people. She has been there and also saw only three houses. Probably they were there when Hans' son Johannes lived there. She indicates that she doesn't see more than one Hans Roemer living there at a time, unless they are father and son. | Römer, Hans Adam (I2703)
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| 4770 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The correct name for this individual's father and the make up of siblings is uncertain and conflicted. The names Hans Peter or Johann appear erroneous and Hans Adam seems to be the best option. Family researcher Rose Green has pioneered and led the research into this question. I quote first the two published German sources, then Rose's appraisal of the validity of the information these sources present, and then finally some comments on the correct father: A. Published German Sources: a. "DGB" = FHL book 943.D2dg, vol. 175, "Deutsches Geschlechtebuch/Hessisches Geschlechterbuch," by Hermann Thutewohl, (1977), pp. 252-255, provides a study of Hessian Römers which includes our American branch as follows. The same material is found in the "Hessian Lineage Book," vol. 20, 1977, publisher of CA Starke, Limburg an der Lahn. (Translation courtesy of Rose Green.) The book is German which I translate to English. Dates are European style day - month - year. Symbols: * = birth/christening; oo = married; + = death. The numbering system is per the book which I place in [brackets] for clarity: [Vb] Hans Peter Römer, * ... 11. 7. 1642, + Geisenbach 21. 3. 1730, bur. Weinheim 23. 3. 1730; named "the old Römer," owner of a "Hof" (farm/land with buildings) in Geisenbach; oo ... 20. 1. 1671 Margarethe Reinig, * ..., + Geisenbach 3. 2. 1719. Children born in Geisenbach: 1. Anna, * (calculated) 1671, + ..., Godmother on 22. 1. 1685. 2. Margarethe, * (calculated) 1673, + ..., oo ... Johann Nikolaus Schütz from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 3. Maria Margarethe, * 18. 11. 1674, + ..., Godmother on 10. 11. 1691; oo ... Hans Nikolaus Schuh from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 4. Johannes, * 10. 1. 1678, [s. VIb] 5. Johann Jakob, * 13. 11. 1681, [s. VIc, Schwetzinger main branch] 6. Eva, * 7. 2. 1685, + ... 7. Eva Elisabeth, * 8. 5. 1687, + ... 8. Anna Barbara, * 6. 5. 1688, + ...; oo ... 17. 11. 1705 ... moved to Schimbach. 9. Gertrud, * 26. 5. 1690, + ... 1758; oo ... Johann Jakob Brecht from Ober Mumbach, * ..., + ... b. "FM" = The book "Familienbuch Mörlenbach," by Dr. Otto Wagner, 1994: - 2857 m. vor 1670 Joh. Römer, Geisenbach, bei ihm dient 1683 Jakob Drϋber, 1721 Zeuge fϋr Verkauf von 1 1/2 Huben [383a] an [2669], u Anna N.N. Kdr.: (viell.) - Margarete, m. vor 1692 [3365†] - Anna, 1685 Pate [b. 1695] - Anna Margarete, 1683 Pate [1695], m. Ober-Absteinach 2.2.1695 Peter Helfrich of Unter-Absteinach. - Joh. Jakob, b. 13.11.1681, m. 17.11.1705 Kath. - Joh. Adam, m. Ober-Absteinach 7.6.1706 Elis. - Eva, *7.2.1685 - Eva Elis., b. Vöckelsbach ~~luth. Birkenau 5./12.5.1687 B. Rose Green's comments and analysis of the above two records with her own research into the church records of our Geisenbach branch of the Roemer family with Johannes Roemer, b. 1678, as a child. She prefaces her comments on the children by saying: "The only way to figure this out is to look at the primary sources -- making a decision based on secondary information that may or may not be correct isn't going to really solve the problem. I believe, without having the records right in front of me, that some individuals were discovered via marriage records and then other people discovered the same individuals via christening records. Even though the family lived in one concentrated area, the records are scattered through several different church books (i.e. geographically) and across more than one religion. The "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" is going to look primarily at Catholic records, since Moerlenbach is Catholic. The DGB seems to use both Lutheran records and some land records (the second of which I don't have access to). So I do think that at least one child is perhaps duplicated in this family. But we want to be very, very careful to make sure we don't eliminate a real person, either. But I do think that Maria Margaretha and Margaretha are the same person." a. Rose's comments regarding the DGB with some rearranging in the order of children: - Parents: Hans (Adam) Römer m. Margaretha Reinig in Geisenbach with children as follows. The first five children are from the Wald-Michelbach church records (Lutheran) and are certain: 1. Maria Margaretha, b. 18 Nov 1674, daughter of Hans Remer and Margaretha (godmother Margaretha wife of Hans Jorg Rehm, smith of Birkenau). 2. Johannes Remi, b. 10 Jan 1678, son of Hanss Remi (Römer) of Geisenbach, and wife Margaretha. Godfather was Hans Reinig, Wilhelm Reinig's son of Geisenbach (i.e. the uncle). 3. Johann Jakob Rheme, b. 13 Nov 1681, son of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha his wife. Godfather was Hans Jacob Erhardt/Erhanger/Erhanyer? of Geisenbach (the name is extremely difficult to read). 4. Eva Rheme, b. 7 Feb 1685, daughter of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva, wife or daughter of Niclaus Erhardt of Geisenbach. 5. Eva Elisabeth Rheme, b. 8 May 1687, daughter of Hans Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva the ? of Nicolaus Reinig of Geisenbach. [See note below about the confusion in birthdates of 5 or 8 May.] - Rose's comments of the other children that show up in the DGB: 6. Anna, abt 1671 (DGB). This lists her as a godmother on 22 Jan 1685. I presume she is named as the daughter of Hans Roemer of Geisenbach here; I would like to see the record for myself (the DGB however does not say where and for whom she was a godmother.) 7. Margarethe, b. abt 1673, married to Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach, son of Hans Nikolaus Schütz of Geisenbach, about 1692 and had three children whose births are recorded in the Lutheran church book of Wald-Michelbach for Birkenau as well as the Familienbuch Moerlenbach. Her son was godfather to Johann Michael Roemer of Birkenau (the son of Johannes Roemer). Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach was godfather to another of Johannes Roemer's children, Johann Nikolaus (1712). The record explicitly says that this man is the brother-in-law of Johannes Roemer. So yes, I believe this one! Most likely the same as #1 above. 8. Maria Margarethe, b. 18 Nov 1674, was a godmother on 10 Nov 1691 (where? DGB doesn't list it), and married "Hans Nikolaus Schuh of Geisenbach." She looks awfully like #7 to me. In a place with a population of less than 100 people, are there really two different individuals named Hans Nikolaus Schuh and Hans Nikolaus Schütz, both married to Margaretha Romer? Most likely the same as #1 and #7. 9. Anna Barbara, b. 6 May 1688 (from DGB): this looks awfully like the girl born in Gras-Ellenbach to Hans and Catharina Romer. 10. Gertrud, b. 26 May 1690, married Johann Jacob Brecht of Ober Mumbach (according to the DGB). I'm not saying this can't be her, but I didn't see a Gertrud in the book. b. Comments regarding on the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna. Moerlenbach is adjacent to Birkenau and was largely Catholic; however, both Lutherans and people from the Birkenau parish wandered over there, and so some of them show up in their records too. As you can see, there is some overlap with the HGB, but they aren't completely congruent. The children this book lists are as such: 1. Yes: Margaretha, married bef 1692 (this would be the one who married Joh. Nikolaus Schutz; so far, so good). 2. Yes: Anna, a godmother in 1685 (same as above; would like to see this, but if they are naming her as the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach, then I'm cool with that. I just would like to know who she is being godmother to, as those often happen among close family members.) 3. Maybe: Anna Margaretha, godmother in 1683 (to whom, and where?); married Peter Helferich of Unter-Abtsteinach on 2 Feb 1695 in Ober-Abtsteinach. (That is a Catholic place.) This should be independently verified in the original marriage record (i.e. that she is the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach in specific), since I didn't find her in the birth records. Another child in this family, Johannes, had a second wife was also a Helferich, and also Catholic. 4. Yes: Johann Jakob, b. 13 Nov 1681. According to the Moerlenbach book, he married Anna Katerina Reinig of Schimbach on 17 Nov 1705 in Schimbach, and had a number of children, the first ones in Schimbach and later ones in Schwetzingen. Yes, this son is correct. 5. No: Joh. Adam, married 7 Jun 1706 Elisabeth daughter of Adam Heckman in Ober-Abtsteinach (Catholic). Hmm ... Sorry, I didn't see that person in Geisenbach. Perhaps they are confusing him with the one born in Schönmattenwag in 1678? There are so many people running around with this same name in a small area, but definitely not in Geisenbach. 6. Yes: Eva, b. 7 Feb 1685. Yes, this is correct. 7. Yes: Eva Elisabeth, b. 5 May 1687. Yes, she is in the church record, too, although it is Wald-Michelbach (with village Geisenbach) that she appears. I don't know why the FM says that she was born in Voelkelsbach and christened 12 May 1687 in Birkenau. The date on the church record is very difficult to read, and perhaps it really is 5 and not 8. I see that she was christened the 12th, but the actual record says nothing about Voekelsbach. C. Rose's comments as to who is the correct father of our Roemer family of Geisenbach and of his marriage: a. "I did have a chance to look at the Birkenau film again, but unfortunately I didn't find anything new on it. I also didn't find any other suggestions to explain the Hans Peter Roemer shown in DGB. Seriously, in all the records I see, he is not the father in this family. He's either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer. I've been to Geisenbach -- there are three houses and one of them is new since the 1600s. There is zero mention of Hans Peter Roemer in Geisenbach in this time period in the church records. I think that the only way to solve this problem is to access some land or court or civil records, but they are not on microfilm. Maybe if I live there again, I'll have a look; I just don't know how to get at something like that from here, or even what exactly it is I need." b. "Regarding the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna." c. The DGB also lists a specific marriage date for him, which if found would likely give more information about him -- but this church record cannot be found (i.e. the parish records for marriages as they presently stand begin in 1671 after the supposed marriage date). The wife's maiden name of Reinig, however, appears to be accurate, as Wilhelm Reinig of Geisenbach does indeed have a daughter Margareta of the right age, and other children of Reinig serve as godparents to Hans (?) Roemer's children. d. I have doubts about the name of Johannes Roemer's father. The parents listed in Familysearch as of May 2015 (apparently based on the DGB info) are Hans Peter Roemer and Margaretha Reinig. When I went to verify this in the actual primary documents, I could not. The father listed in the birth entries of Johannes and his siblings is consistently either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer (with spelling variations on the last name; spelling didn't matter as much in the 1600s as in the 2010s). For Johann Jacob, Johannes's brother, the priest started to write someone else's name, then crossed it out and wrote Hans Adam. Eva's father is also listed as Hans Adam. There were two other Hans Adam Roemers bearing children in the parish at this time as well, which meant that delineation had to be clear in the records. One is having children at the same time in Schlierbach (another village in the same parish) -- meanwhile, our family is living in Geisenbach. I suppose it's *possible* that the priest mis-wrote the name--twice. But at the same time, this is the primary document there. I could find no trace of existing marriage records for this time and place, either microfilmed by the LDS church or otherwise, which is too bad, since it would clear up the problem easily. Possible explanations for this discrepancy: i. The pastor got confused and wrote down Hans Adam because there were so many of them, when really he was thinking of a different name. ii. The DGB data is based on land/court/occupational records instead of church records, and there were either errors in these records, or the researcher made some inaccurate assumptions. iii. I found a birth entry for a Hans Peter Roemer in the Birkenau parish record which could, by a bit of a stretch, fit in the right generation to be father to Johannes. Perhaps the researcher wanted to make this fit, so the supposition was made. However, there is also the record of the birth of a Hans Adam Roemer in the Waldmichelbach records for an even better age fit. (Both parishes covered the Geisenbach and Mengelbach areas.) Who knows which of the three Hans Adams it was. iv. There really is a marriage record squirreled away in an archive somewhere that no one (not even the historians writing about family records in Birkenau today) know about. e. In reviewing the DGB for the Ober Mengelbach Branch of Römers, we do find this family grouping with an Adam Römer who the right age to possibly be the Hans Adam Römer we are seeking. DGB provides no other information on him except for the birth date of 21 Jan 1646. Linking him for now would be premature without further corroborating evidence, but the information from DGB is as follows [see the notes of the earliest Römer in my database for the full DGB abstract]: ". Hans Römer, *Ober Mengelbach about 1620, + in the same place before 1695, mayor (Schultheiß), and owner of the Koch farm in Ober Mengelbach, oo Katharina (Cadel?), * (unknown), +20 Feb 1695 Ober Mengelbach. Children, born in Ober Mengelbach: 1. Adam, *21 Jan 1646, + unknown 2. Margaretha, *14 Aug 1648, + unknown 3. Johann Michael, * 1657, see VIa" D. Rose's comments on three of the children: "Some of these children may be one and the same person. We have an Anna, a Margaretha, and an Anna Margaretha. Anna Margaretha and Margaretha can't be the same person as they are married to different people at the same time. I suppose there's a chance that Anna and Anna Margaretha are the same person, but they may still be three distinct individuals." | Römer, Anna Margaretha (I5041)
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| 4771 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The correct name for this individual's father and the make up of siblings is uncertain and conflicted. The names Hans Peter or Johann appear erroneous and Hans Adam seems to be the best option. Family researcher Rose Green has pioneered and led the research into this question. I quote first the two published German sources, then Rose's appraisal of the validity of the information these sources present, and then finally some comments on the correct father: A. Published German Sources: a. "DGB" = FHL book 943.D2dg, vol. 175, "Deutsches Geschlechtebuch/Hessisches Geschlechterbuch," by Hermann Thutewohl, (1977), pp. 252-255, provides a study of Hessian Römers which includes our American branch as follows. The same material is found in the "Hessian Lineage Book," vol. 20, 1977, publisher of CA Starke, Limburg an der Lahn. (Translation courtesy of Rose Green.) The book is German which I translate to English. Dates are European style day - month - year. Symbols: * = birth/christening; oo = married; + = death. The numbering system is per the book which I place in [brackets] for clarity: [Vb] Hans Peter Römer, * ... 11. 7. 1642, + Geisenbach 21. 3. 1730, bur. Weinheim 23. 3. 1730; named "the old Römer," owner of a "Hof" (farm/land with buildings) in Geisenbach; oo ... 20. 1. 1671 Margarethe Reinig, * ..., + Geisenbach 3. 2. 1719. Children born in Geisenbach: 1. Anna, * (calculated) 1671, + ..., Godmother on 22. 1. 1685. 2. Margarethe, * (calculated) 1673, + ..., oo ... Johann Nikolaus Schütz from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 3. Maria Margarethe, * 18. 11. 1674, + ..., Godmother on 10. 11. 1691; oo ... Hans Nikolaus Schuh from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 4. Johannes, * 10. 1. 1678, [s. VIb] 5. Johann Jakob, * 13. 11. 1681, [s. VIc, Schwetzinger main branch] 6. Eva, * 7. 2. 1685, + ... 7. Eva Elisabeth, * 8. 5. 1687, + ... 8. Anna Barbara, * 6. 5. 1688, + ...; oo ... 17. 11. 1705 ... moved to Schimbach. 9. Gertrud, * 26. 5. 1690, + ... 1758; oo ... Johann Jakob Brecht from Ober Mumbach, * ..., + ... b. "FM" = The book "Familienbuch Mörlenbach," by Dr. Otto Wagner, 1994: - 2857 m. vor 1670 Joh. Römer, Geisenbach, bei ihm dient 1683 Jakob Drϋber, 1721 Zeuge fϋr Verkauf von 1 1/2 Huben [383a] an [2669], u Anna N.N. Kdr.: (viell.) - Margarete, m. vor 1692 [3365†] - Anna, 1685 Pate [b. 1695] - Anna Margarete, 1683 Pate [1695], m. Ober-Absteinach 2.2.1695 Peter Helfrich of Unter-Absteinach. - Joh. Jakob, b. 13.11.1681, m. 17.11.1705 Kath. - Joh. Adam, m. Ober-Absteinach 7.6.1706 Elis. - Eva, *7.2.1685 - Eva Elis., b. Vöckelsbach ~~luth. Birkenau 5./12.5.1687 B. Rose Green's comments and analysis of the above two records with her own research into the church records of our Geisenbach branch of the Roemer family with Johannes Roemer, b. 1678, as a child. She prefaces her comments on the children by saying: "The only way to figure this out is to look at the primary sources -- making a decision based on secondary information that may or may not be correct isn't going to really solve the problem. I believe, without having the records right in front of me, that some individuals were discovered via marriage records and then other people discovered the same individuals via christening records. Even though the family lived in one concentrated area, the records are scattered through several different church books (i.e. geographically) and across more than one religion. The "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" is going to look primarily at Catholic records, since Moerlenbach is Catholic. The DGB seems to use both Lutheran records and some land records (the second of which I don't have access to). So I do think that at least one child is perhaps duplicated in this family. But we want to be very, very careful to make sure we don't eliminate a real person, either. But I do think that Maria Margaretha and Margaretha are the same person." a. Rose's comments regarding the DGB with some rearranging in the order of children: - Parents: Hans (Adam) Römer m. Margaretha Reinig in Geisenbach with children as follows. The first five children are from the Wald-Michelbach church records (Lutheran) and are certain: 1. Maria Margaretha, b. 18 Nov 1674, daughter of Hans Remer and Margaretha (godmother Margaretha wife of Hans Jorg Rehm, smith of Birkenau). 2. Johannes Remi, b. 10 Jan 1678, son of Hanss Remi (Römer) of Geisenbach, and wife Margaretha. Godfather was Hans Reinig, Wilhelm Reinig's son of Geisenbach (i.e. the uncle). 3. Johann Jakob Rheme, b. 13 Nov 1681, son of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha his wife. Godfather was Hans Jacob Erhardt/Erhanger/Erhanyer? of Geisenbach (the name is extremely difficult to read). 4. Eva Rheme, b. 7 Feb 1685, daughter of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva, wife or daughter of Niclaus Erhardt of Geisenbach. 5. Eva Elisabeth Rheme, b. 8 May 1687, daughter of Hans Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva the ? of Nicolaus Reinig of Geisenbach. [See note below about the confusion in birthdates of 5 or 8 May.] - Rose's comments of the other children that show up in the DGB: 6. Anna, abt 1671 (DGB). This lists her as a godmother on 22 Jan 1685. I presume she is named as the daughter of Hans Roemer of Geisenbach here; I would like to see the record for myself (the DGB however does not say where and for whom she was a godmother.) 7. Margarethe, b. abt 1673, married to Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach, son of Hans Nikolaus Schütz of Geisenbach, about 1692 and had three children whose births are recorded in the Lutheran church book of Wald-Michelbach for Birkenau as well as the Familienbuch Moerlenbach. Her son was godfather to Johann Michael Roemer of Birkenau (the son of Johannes Roemer). Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach was godfather to another of Johannes Roemer's children, Johann Nikolaus (1712). The record explicitly says that this man is the brother-in-law of Johannes Roemer. So yes, I believe this one! Most likely the same as #1 above. 8. Maria Margarethe, b. 18 Nov 1674, was a godmother on 10 Nov 1691 (where? DGB doesn't list it), and married "Hans Nikolaus Schuh of Geisenbach." She looks awfully like #7 to me. In a place with a population of less than 100 people, are there really two different individuals named Hans Nikolaus Schuh and Hans Nikolaus Schütz, both married to Margaretha Romer? Most likely the same as #1 and #7. 9. Anna Barbara, b. 6 May 1688 (from DGB): this looks awfully like the girl born in Gras-Ellenbach to Hans and Catharina Romer. 10. Gertrud, b. 26 May 1690, married Johann Jacob Brecht of Ober Mumbach (according to the DGB). I'm not saying this can't be her, but I didn't see a Gertrud in the book. b. Comments regarding on the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna. Moerlenbach is adjacent to Birkenau and was largely Catholic; however, both Lutherans and people from the Birkenau parish wandered over there, and so some of them show up in their records too. As you can see, there is some overlap with the HGB, but they aren't completely congruent. The children this book lists are as such: 1. Yes: Margaretha, married bef 1692 (this would be the one who married Joh. Nikolaus Schutz; so far, so good). 2. Yes: Anna, a godmother in 1685 (same as above; would like to see this, but if they are naming her as the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach, then I'm cool with that. I just would like to know who she is being godmother to, as those often happen among close family members.) 3. Maybe: Anna Margaretha, godmother in 1683 (to whom, and where?); married Peter Helferich of Unter-Abtsteinach on 2 Feb 1695 in Ober-Abtsteinach. (That is a Catholic place.) This should be independently verified in the original marriage record (i.e. that she is the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach in specific), since I didn't find her in the birth records. Another child in this family, Johannes, had a second wife was also a Helferich, and also Catholic. 4. Yes: Johann Jakob, b. 13 Nov 1681. According to the Moerlenbach book, he married Anna Katerina Reinig of Schimbach on 17 Nov 1705 in Schimbach, and had a number of children, the first ones in Schimbach and later ones in Schwetzingen. Yes, this son is correct. 5. No: Joh. Adam, married 7 Jun 1706 Elisabeth daughter of Adam Heckman in Ober-Abtsteinach (Catholic). Hmm ... Sorry, I didn't see that person in Geisenbach. Perhaps they are confusing him with the one born in Schönmattenwag in 1678? There are so many people running around with this same name in a small area, but definitely not in Geisenbach. 6. Yes: Eva, b. 7 Feb 1685. Yes, this is correct. 7. Yes: Eva Elisabeth, b. 5 May 1687. Yes, she is in the church record, too, although it is Wald-Michelbach (with village Geisenbach) that she appears. I don't know why the FM says that she was born in Voelkelsbach and christened 12 May 1687 in Birkenau. The date on the church record is very difficult to read, and perhaps it really is 5 and not 8. I see that she was christened the 12th, but the actual record says nothing about Voekelsbach. C. Rose's comments as to who is the correct father of our Roemer family of Geisenbach and of his marriage: a. "I did have a chance to look at the Birkenau film again, but unfortunately I didn't find anything new on it. I also didn't find any other suggestions to explain the Hans Peter Roemer shown in DGB. Seriously, in all the records I see, he is not the father in this family. He's either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer. I've been to Geisenbach -- there are three houses and one of them is new since the 1600s. There is zero mention of Hans Peter Roemer in Geisenbach in this time period in the church records. I think that the only way to solve this problem is to access some land or court or civil records, but they are not on microfilm. Maybe if I live there again, I'll have a look; I just don't know how to get at something like that from here, or even what exactly it is I need." b. "Regarding the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna." c. The DGB also lists a specific marriage date for him, which if found would likely give more information about him -- but this church record cannot be found (i.e. the parish records for marriages as they presently stand begin in 1671 after the supposed marriage date). The wife's maiden name of Reinig, however, appears to be accurate, as Wilhelm Reinig of Geisenbach does indeed have a daughter Margareta of the right age, and other children of Reinig serve as godparents to Hans (?) Roemer's children. d. I have doubts about the name of Johannes Roemer's father. The parents listed in Familysearch as of May 2015 (apparently based on the DGB info) are Hans Peter Roemer and Margaretha Reinig. When I went to verify this in the actual primary documents, I could not. The father listed in the birth entries of Johannes and his siblings is consistently either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer (with spelling variations on the last name; spelling didn't matter as much in the 1600s as in the 2010s). For Johann Jacob, Johannes's brother, the priest started to write someone else's name, then crossed it out and wrote Hans Adam. Eva's father is also listed as Hans Adam. There were two other Hans Adam Roemers bearing children in the parish at this time as well, which meant that delineation had to be clear in the records. One is having children at the same time in Schlierbach (another village in the same parish) -- meanwhile, our family is living in Geisenbach. I suppose it's *possible* that the priest mis-wrote the name--twice. But at the same time, this is the primary document there. I could find no trace of existing marriage records for this time and place, either microfilmed by the LDS church or otherwise, which is too bad, since it would clear up the problem easily. Possible explanations for this discrepancy: i. The pastor got confused and wrote down Hans Adam because there were so many of them, when really he was thinking of a different name. ii. The DGB data is based on land/court/occupational records instead of church records, and there were either errors in these records, or the researcher made some inaccurate assumptions. iii. I found a birth entry for a Hans Peter Roemer in the Birkenau parish record which could, by a bit of a stretch, fit in the right generation to be father to Johannes. Perhaps the researcher wanted to make this fit, so the supposition was made. However, there is also the record of the birth of a Hans Adam Roemer in the Waldmichelbach records for an even better age fit. (Both parishes covered the Geisenbach and Mengelbach areas.) Who knows which of the three Hans Adams it was. iv. There really is a marriage record squirreled away in an archive somewhere that no one (not even the historians writing about family records in Birkenau today) know about. e. In reviewing the DGB for the Ober Mengelbach Branch of Römers, we do find this family grouping with an Adam Römer who the right age to possibly be the Hans Adam Römer we are seeking. DGB provides no other information on him except for the birth date of 21 Jan 1646. Linking him for now would be premature without further corroborating evidence, but the information from DGB is as follows [see the notes of the earliest Römer in my database for the full DGB abstract]: ". Hans Römer, *Ober Mengelbach about 1620, + in the same place before 1695, mayor (Schultheiß), and owner of the Koch farm in Ober Mengelbach, oo Katharina (Cadel?), * (unknown), +20 Feb 1695 Ober Mengelbach. Children, born in Ober Mengelbach: 1. Adam, *21 Jan 1646, + unknown 2. Margaretha, *14 Aug 1648, + unknown 3. Johann Michael, * 1657, see VIa" D. Rose's comments on three of the children: "Some of these children may be one and the same person. We have an Anna, a Margaretha, and an Anna Margaretha. Anna Margaretha and Margaretha can't be the same person as they are married to different people at the same time. I suppose there's a chance that Anna and Anna Margaretha are the same person, but they may still be three distinct individuals." | Römer, Eva Elisabeth (I5040)
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| 4772 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The correct name for this individual's father and the make up of siblings is uncertain and conflicted. The names Hans Peter or Johann appear erroneous and Hans Adam seems to be the best option. Family researcher Rose Green has pioneered and led the research into this question. I quote first the two published German sources, then Rose's appraisal of the validity of the information these sources present, and then finally some comments on the correct father: A. Published German Sources: a. "DGB" = FHL book 943.D2dg, vol. 175, "Deutsches Geschlechtebuch/Hessisches Geschlechterbuch," by Hermann Thutewohl, (1977), pp. 252-255, provides a study of Hessian Römers which includes our American branch as follows. The same material is found in the "Hessian Lineage Book," vol. 20, 1977, publisher of CA Starke, Limburg an der Lahn. (Translation courtesy of Rose Green.) The book is German which I translate to English. Dates are European style day - month - year. Symbols: * = birth/christening; oo = married; + = death. The numbering system is per the book which I place in [brackets] for clarity: [Vb] Hans Peter Römer, * ... 11. 7. 1642, + Geisenbach 21. 3. 1730, bur. Weinheim 23. 3. 1730; named "the old Römer," owner of a "Hof" (farm/land with buildings) in Geisenbach; oo ... 20. 1. 1671 Margarethe Reinig, * ..., + Geisenbach 3. 2. 1719. Children born in Geisenbach: 1. Anna, * (calculated) 1671, + ..., Godmother on 22. 1. 1685. 2. Margarethe, * (calculated) 1673, + ..., oo ... Johann Nikolaus Schütz from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 3. Maria Margarethe, * 18. 11. 1674, + ..., Godmother on 10. 11. 1691; oo ... Hans Nikolaus Schuh from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 4. Johannes, * 10. 1. 1678, [s. VIb] 5. Johann Jakob, * 13. 11. 1681, [s. VIc, Schwetzinger main branch] 6. Eva, * 7. 2. 1685, + ... 7. Eva Elisabeth, * 8. 5. 1687, + ... 8. Anna Barbara, * 6. 5. 1688, + ...; oo ... 17. 11. 1705 ... moved to Schimbach. 9. Gertrud, * 26. 5. 1690, + ... 1758; oo ... Johann Jakob Brecht from Ober Mumbach, * ..., + ... b. "FM" = The book "Familienbuch Mörlenbach," by Dr. Otto Wagner, 1994: - 2857 m. vor 1670 Joh. Römer, Geisenbach, bei ihm dient 1683 Jakob Drϋber, 1721 Zeuge fϋr Verkauf von 1 1/2 Huben [383a] an [2669], u Anna N.N. Kdr.: (viell.) - Margarete, m. vor 1692 [3365†] - Anna, 1685 Pate [b. 1695] - Anna Margarete, 1683 Pate [1695], m. Ober-Absteinach 2.2.1695 Peter Helfrich of Unter-Absteinach. - Joh. Jakob, b. 13.11.1681, m. 17.11.1705 Kath. - Joh. Adam, m. Ober-Absteinach 7.6.1706 Elis. - Eva, *7.2.1685 - Eva Elis., b. Vöckelsbach ~~luth. Birkenau 5./12.5.1687 B. Rose Green's comments and analysis of the above two records with her own research into the church records of our Geisenbach branch of the Roemer family with Johannes Roemer, b. 1678, as a child. She prefaces her comments on the children by saying: "The only way to figure this out is to look at the primary sources -- making a decision based on secondary information that may or may not be correct isn't going to really solve the problem. I believe, without having the records right in front of me, that some individuals were discovered via marriage records and then other people discovered the same individuals via christening records. Even though the family lived in one concentrated area, the records are scattered through several different church books (i.e. geographically) and across more than one religion. The "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" is going to look primarily at Catholic records, since Moerlenbach is Catholic. The DGB seems to use both Lutheran records and some land records (the second of which I don't have access to). So I do think that at least one child is perhaps duplicated in this family. But we want to be very, very careful to make sure we don't eliminate a real person, either. But I do think that Maria Margaretha and Margaretha are the same person." a. Rose's comments regarding the DGB with some rearranging in the order of children: - Parents: Hans (Adam) Römer m. Margaretha Reinig in Geisenbach with children as follows. The first five children are from the Wald-Michelbach church records (Lutheran) and are certain: 1. Maria Margaretha, b. 18 Nov 1674, daughter of Hans Remer and Margaretha (godmother Margaretha wife of Hans Jorg Rehm, smith of Birkenau). 2. Johannes Remi, b. 10 Jan 1678, son of Hanss Remi (Römer) of Geisenbach, and wife Margaretha. Godfather was Hans Reinig, Wilhelm Reinig's son of Geisenbach (i.e. the uncle). 3. Johann Jakob Rheme, b. 13 Nov 1681, son of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha his wife. Godfather was Hans Jacob Erhardt/Erhanger/Erhanyer? of Geisenbach (the name is extremely difficult to read). 4. Eva Rheme, b. 7 Feb 1685, daughter of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva, wife or daughter of Niclaus Erhardt of Geisenbach. 5. Eva Elisabeth Rheme, b. 8 May 1687, daughter of Hans Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva the ? of Nicolaus Reinig of Geisenbach. [See note below about the confusion in birthdates of 5 or 8 May.] - Rose's comments of the other children that show up in the DGB: 6. Anna, abt 1671 (DGB). This lists her as a godmother on 22 Jan 1685. I presume she is named as the daughter of Hans Roemer of Geisenbach here; I would like to see the record for myself (the DGB however does not say where and for whom she was a godmother.) 7. Margarethe, b. abt 1673, married to Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach, son of Hans Nikolaus Schütz of Geisenbach, about 1692 and had three children whose births are recorded in the Lutheran church book of Wald-Michelbach for Birkenau as well as the Familienbuch Moerlenbach. Her son was godfather to Johann Michael Roemer of Birkenau (the son of Johannes Roemer). Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach was godfather to another of Johannes Roemer's children, Johann Nikolaus (1712). The record explicitly says that this man is the brother-in-law of Johannes Roemer. So yes, I believe this one! Most likely the same as #1 above. 8. Maria Margarethe, b. 18 Nov 1674, was a godmother on 10 Nov 1691 (where? DGB doesn't list it), and married "Hans Nikolaus Schuh of Geisenbach." She looks awfully like #7 to me. In a place with a population of less than 100 people, are there really two different individuals named Hans Nikolaus Schuh and Hans Nikolaus Schütz, both married to Margaretha Romer? Most likely the same as #1 and #7. 9. Anna Barbara, b. 6 May 1688 (from DGB): this looks awfully like the girl born in Gras-Ellenbach to Hans and Catharina Romer. 10. Gertrud, b. 26 May 1690, married Johann Jacob Brecht of Ober Mumbach (according to the DGB). I'm not saying this can't be her, but I didn't see a Gertrud in the book. b. Comments regarding on the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna. Moerlenbach is adjacent to Birkenau and was largely Catholic; however, both Lutherans and people from the Birkenau parish wandered over there, and so some of them show up in their records too. As you can see, there is some overlap with the HGB, but they aren't completely congruent. The children this book lists are as such: 1. Yes: Margaretha, married bef 1692 (this would be the one who married Joh. Nikolaus Schutz; so far, so good). 2. Yes: Anna, a godmother in 1685 (same as above; would like to see this, but if they are naming her as the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach, then I'm cool with that. I just would like to know who she is being godmother to, as those often happen among close family members.) 3. Maybe: Anna Margaretha, godmother in 1683 (to whom, and where?); married Peter Helferich of Unter-Abtsteinach on 2 Feb 1695 in Ober-Abtsteinach. (That is a Catholic place.) This should be independently verified in the original marriage record (i.e. that she is the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach in specific), since I didn't find her in the birth records. Another child in this family, Johannes, had a second wife was also a Helferich, and also Catholic. 4. Yes: Johann Jakob, b. 13 Nov 1681. According to the Moerlenbach book, he married Anna Katerina Reinig of Schimbach on 17 Nov 1705 in Schimbach, and had a number of children, the first ones in Schimbach and later ones in Schwetzingen. Yes, this son is correct. 5. No: Joh. Adam, married 7 Jun 1706 Elisabeth daughter of Adam Heckman in Ober-Abtsteinach (Catholic). Hmm ... Sorry, I didn't see that person in Geisenbach. Perhaps they are confusing him with the one born in Schönmattenwag in 1678? There are so many people running around with this same name in a small area, but definitely not in Geisenbach. 6. Yes: Eva, b. 7 Feb 1685. Yes, this is correct. 7. Yes: Eva Elisabeth, b. 5 May 1687. Yes, she is in the church record, too, although it is Wald-Michelbach (with village Geisenbach) that she appears. I don't know why the FM says that she was born in Voelkelsbach and christened 12 May 1687 in Birkenau. The date on the church record is very difficult to read, and perhaps it really is 5 and not 8. I see that she was christened the 12th, but the actual record says nothing about Voekelsbach. C. Rose's comments as to who is the correct father of our Roemer family of Geisenbach and of his marriage: a. "I did have a chance to look at the Birkenau film again, but unfortunately I didn't find anything new on it. I also didn't find any other suggestions to explain the Hans Peter Roemer shown in DGB. Seriously, in all the records I see, he is not the father in this family. He's either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer. I've been to Geisenbach -- there are three houses and one of them is new since the 1600s. There is zero mention of Hans Peter Roemer in Geisenbach in this time period in the church records. I think that the only way to solve this problem is to access some land or court or civil records, but they are not on microfilm. Maybe if I live there again, I'll have a look; I just don't know how to get at something like that from here, or even what exactly it is I need." b. "Regarding the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna." c. The DGB also lists a specific marriage date for him, which if found would likely give more information about him -- but this church record cannot be found (i.e. the parish records for marriages as they presently stand begin in 1671 after the supposed marriage date). The wife's maiden name of Reinig, however, appears to be accurate, as Wilhelm Reinig of Geisenbach does indeed have a daughter Margareta of the right age, and other children of Reinig serve as godparents to Hans (?) Roemer's children. d. I have doubts about the name of Johannes Roemer's father. The parents listed in Familysearch as of May 2015 (apparently based on the DGB info) are Hans Peter Roemer and Margaretha Reinig. When I went to verify this in the actual primary documents, I could not. The father listed in the birth entries of Johannes and his siblings is consistently either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer (with spelling variations on the last name; spelling didn't matter as much in the 1600s as in the 2010s). For Johann Jacob, Johannes's brother, the priest started to write someone else's name, then crossed it out and wrote Hans Adam. Eva's father is also listed as Hans Adam. There were two other Hans Adam Roemers bearing children in the parish at this time as well, which meant that delineation had to be clear in the records. One is having children at the same time in Schlierbach (another village in the same parish) -- meanwhile, our family is living in Geisenbach. I suppose it's *possible* that the priest mis-wrote the name--twice. But at the same time, this is the primary document there. I could find no trace of existing marriage records for this time and place, either microfilmed by the LDS church or otherwise, which is too bad, since it would clear up the problem easily. Possible explanations for this discrepancy: i. The pastor got confused and wrote down Hans Adam because there were so many of them, when really he was thinking of a different name. ii. The DGB data is based on land/court/occupational records instead of church records, and there were either errors in these records, or the researcher made some inaccurate assumptions. iii. I found a birth entry for a Hans Peter Roemer in the Birkenau parish record which could, by a bit of a stretch, fit in the right generation to be father to Johannes. Perhaps the researcher wanted to make this fit, so the supposition was made. However, there is also the record of the birth of a Hans Adam Roemer in the Waldmichelbach records for an even better age fit. (Both parishes covered the Geisenbach and Mengelbach areas.) Who knows which of the three Hans Adams it was. iv. There really is a marriage record squirreled away in an archive somewhere that no one (not even the historians writing about family records in Birkenau today) know about. e. In reviewing the DGB for the Ober Mengelbach Branch of Römers, we do find this family grouping with an Adam Römer who the right age to possibly be the Hans Adam Römer we are seeking. DGB provides no other information on him except for the birth date of 21 Jan 1646. Linking him for now would be premature without further corroborating evidence, but the information from DGB is as follows [see the notes of the earliest Römer in my database for the full DGB abstract]: ". Hans Römer, *Ober Mengelbach about 1620, + in the same place before 1695, mayor (Schultheiß), and owner of the Koch farm in Ober Mengelbach, oo Katharina (Cadel?), * (unknown), +20 Feb 1695 Ober Mengelbach. Children, born in Ober Mengelbach: 1. Adam, *21 Jan 1646, + unknown 2. Margaretha, *14 Aug 1648, + unknown 3. Johann Michael, * 1657, see VIa" D. Rose's comments on three of the children: "Some of these children may be one and the same person. We have an Anna, a Margaretha, and an Anna Margaretha. Anna Margaretha and Margaretha can't be the same person as they are married to different people at the same time. I suppose there's a chance that Anna and Anna Margaretha are the same person, but they may still be three distinct individuals." | Römer, Eva (I5039)
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| 4773 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The correct name for this individual's father and the make up of siblings is uncertain and conflicted. The names Hans Peter or Johann appear erroneous and Hans Adam seems to be the best option. Family researcher Rose Green has pioneered and led the research into this question. I quote first the two published German sources, then Rose's appraisal of the validity of the information these sources present, and then finally some comments on the correct father: A. Published German Sources: a. "DGB" = FHL book 943.D2dg, vol. 175, "Deutsches Geschlechtebuch/Hessisches Geschlechterbuch," by Hermann Thutewohl, (1977), pp. 252-255, provides a study of Hessian Römers which includes our American branch as follows. The same material is found in the "Hessian Lineage Book," vol. 20, 1977, publisher of CA Starke, Limburg an der Lahn. (Translation courtesy of Rose Green.) The book is German which I translate to English. Dates are European style day - month - year. Symbols: * = birth/christening; oo = married; + = death. The numbering system is per the book which I place in [brackets] for clarity: [Vb] Hans Peter Römer, * ... 11. 7. 1642, + Geisenbach 21. 3. 1730, bur. Weinheim 23. 3. 1730; named "the old Römer," owner of a "Hof" (farm/land with buildings) in Geisenbach; oo ... 20. 1. 1671 Margarethe Reinig, * ..., + Geisenbach 3. 2. 1719. Children born in Geisenbach: 1. Anna, * (calculated) 1671, + ..., Godmother on 22. 1. 1685. 2. Margarethe, * (calculated) 1673, + ..., oo ... Johann Nikolaus Schütz from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 3. Maria Margarethe, * 18. 11. 1674, + ..., Godmother on 10. 11. 1691; oo ... Hans Nikolaus Schuh from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 4. Johannes, * 10. 1. 1678, [s. VIb] 5. Johann Jakob, * 13. 11. 1681, [s. VIc, Schwetzinger main branch] 6. Eva, * 7. 2. 1685, + ... 7. Eva Elisabeth, * 8. 5. 1687, + ... 8. Anna Barbara, * 6. 5. 1688, + ...; oo ... 17. 11. 1705 ... moved to Schimbach. 9. Gertrud, * 26. 5. 1690, + ... 1758; oo ... Johann Jakob Brecht from Ober Mumbach, * ..., + ... b. "FM" = The book "Familienbuch Mörlenbach," by Dr. Otto Wagner, 1994: - 2857 m. vor 1670 Joh. Römer, Geisenbach, bei ihm dient 1683 Jakob Drϋber, 1721 Zeuge fϋr Verkauf von 1 1/2 Huben [383a] an [2669], u Anna N.N. Kdr.: (viell.) - Margarete, m. vor 1692 [3365†] - Anna, 1685 Pate [b. 1695] - Anna Margarete, 1683 Pate [1695], m. Ober-Absteinach 2.2.1695 Peter Helfrich of Unter-Absteinach. - Joh. Jakob, b. 13.11.1681, m. 17.11.1705 Kath. - Joh. Adam, m. Ober-Absteinach 7.6.1706 Elis. - Eva, *7.2.1685 - Eva Elis., b. Vöckelsbach ~~luth. Birkenau 5./12.5.1687 B. Rose Green's comments and analysis of the above two records with her own research into the church records of our Geisenbach branch of the Roemer family with Johannes Roemer, b. 1678, as a child. She prefaces her comments on the children by saying: "The only way to figure this out is to look at the primary sources -- making a decision based on secondary information that may or may not be correct isn't going to really solve the problem. I believe, without having the records right in front of me, that some individuals were discovered via marriage records and then other people discovered the same individuals via christening records. Even though the family lived in one concentrated area, the records are scattered through several different church books (i.e. geographically) and across more than one religion. The "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" is going to look primarily at Catholic records, since Moerlenbach is Catholic. The DGB seems to use both Lutheran records and some land records (the second of which I don't have access to). So I do think that at least one child is perhaps duplicated in this family. But we want to be very, very careful to make sure we don't eliminate a real person, either. But I do think that Maria Margaretha and Margaretha are the same person." a. Rose's comments regarding the DGB with some rearranging in the order of children: - Parents: Hans (Adam) Römer m. Margaretha Reinig in Geisenbach with children as follows. The first five children are from the Wald-Michelbach church records (Lutheran) and are certain: 1. Maria Margaretha, b. 18 Nov 1674, daughter of Hans Remer and Margaretha (godmother Margaretha wife of Hans Jorg Rehm, smith of Birkenau). 2. Johannes Remi, b. 10 Jan 1678, son of Hanss Remi (Römer) of Geisenbach, and wife Margaretha. Godfather was Hans Reinig, Wilhelm Reinig's son of Geisenbach (i.e. the uncle). 3. Johann Jakob Rheme, b. 13 Nov 1681, son of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha his wife. Godfather was Hans Jacob Erhardt/Erhanger/Erhanyer? of Geisenbach (the name is extremely difficult to read). 4. Eva Rheme, b. 7 Feb 1685, daughter of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva, wife or daughter of Niclaus Erhardt of Geisenbach. 5. Eva Elisabeth Rheme, b. 8 May 1687, daughter of Hans Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva the ? of Nicolaus Reinig of Geisenbach. [See note below about the confusion in birthdates of 5 or 8 May.] - Rose's comments of the other children that show up in the DGB: 6. Anna, abt 1671 (DGB). This lists her as a godmother on 22 Jan 1685. I presume she is named as the daughter of Hans Roemer of Geisenbach here; I would like to see the record for myself (the DGB however does not say where and for whom she was a godmother.) 7. Margarethe, b. abt 1673, married to Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach, son of Hans Nikolaus Schütz of Geisenbach, about 1692 and had three children whose births are recorded in the Lutheran church book of Wald-Michelbach for Birkenau as well as the Familienbuch Moerlenbach. Her son was godfather to Johann Michael Roemer of Birkenau (the son of Johannes Roemer). Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach was godfather to another of Johannes Roemer's children, Johann Nikolaus (1712). The record explicitly says that this man is the brother-in-law of Johannes Roemer. So yes, I believe this one! Most likely the same as #1 above. 8. Maria Margarethe, b. 18 Nov 1674, was a godmother on 10 Nov 1691 (where? DGB doesn't list it), and married "Hans Nikolaus Schuh of Geisenbach." She looks awfully like #7 to me. In a place with a population of less than 100 people, are there really two different individuals named Hans Nikolaus Schuh and Hans Nikolaus Schütz, both married to Margaretha Romer? Most likely the same as #1 and #7. 9. Anna Barbara, b. 6 May 1688 (from DGB): this looks awfully like the girl born in Gras-Ellenbach to Hans and Catharina Romer. 10. Gertrud, b. 26 May 1690, married Johann Jacob Brecht of Ober Mumbach (according to the DGB). I'm not saying this can't be her, but I didn't see a Gertrud in the book. b. Comments regarding on the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna. Moerlenbach is adjacent to Birkenau and was largely Catholic; however, both Lutherans and people from the Birkenau parish wandered over there, and so some of them show up in their records too. As you can see, there is some overlap with the HGB, but they aren't completely congruent. The children this book lists are as such: 1. Yes: Margaretha, married bef 1692 (this would be the one who married Joh. Nikolaus Schutz; so far, so good). 2. Yes: Anna, a godmother in 1685 (same as above; would like to see this, but if they are naming her as the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach, then I'm cool with that. I just would like to know who she is being godmother to, as those often happen among close family members.) 3. Maybe: Anna Margaretha, godmother in 1683 (to whom, and where?); married Peter Helferich of Unter-Abtsteinach on 2 Feb 1695 in Ober-Abtsteinach. (That is a Catholic place.) This should be independently verified in the original marriage record (i.e. that she is the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach in specific), since I didn't find her in the birth records. Another child in this family, Johannes, had a second wife was also a Helferich, and also Catholic. 4. Yes: Johann Jakob, b. 13 Nov 1681. According to the Moerlenbach book, he married Anna Katerina Reinig of Schimbach on 17 Nov 1705 in Schimbach, and had a number of children, the first ones in Schimbach and later ones in Schwetzingen. Yes, this son is correct. 5. No: Joh. Adam, married 7 Jun 1706 Elisabeth daughter of Adam Heckman in Ober-Abtsteinach (Catholic). Hmm ... Sorry, I didn't see that person in Geisenbach. Perhaps they are confusing him with the one born in Schönmattenwag in 1678? There are so many people running around with this same name in a small area, but definitely not in Geisenbach. 6. Yes: Eva, b. 7 Feb 1685. Yes, this is correct. 7. Yes: Eva Elisabeth, b. 5 May 1687. Yes, she is in the church record, too, although it is Wald-Michelbach (with village Geisenbach) that she appears. I don't know why the FM says that she was born in Voelkelsbach and christened 12 May 1687 in Birkenau. The date on the church record is very difficult to read, and perhaps it really is 5 and not 8. I see that she was christened the 12th, but the actual record says nothing about Voekelsbach. C. Rose's comments as to who is the correct father of our Roemer family of Geisenbach and of his marriage: a. "I did have a chance to look at the Birkenau film again, but unfortunately I didn't find anything new on it. I also didn't find any other suggestions to explain the Hans Peter Roemer shown in DGB. Seriously, in all the records I see, he is not the father in this family. He's either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer. I've been to Geisenbach -- there are three houses and one of them is new since the 1600s. There is zero mention of Hans Peter Roemer in Geisenbach in this time period in the church records. I think that the only way to solve this problem is to access some land or court or civil records, but they are not on microfilm. Maybe if I live there again, I'll have a look; I just don't know how to get at something like that from here, or even what exactly it is I need." b. "Regarding the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna." c. The DGB also lists a specific marriage date for him, which if found would likely give more information about him -- but this church record cannot be found (i.e. the parish records for marriages as they presently stand begin in 1671 after the supposed marriage date). The wife's maiden name of Reinig, however, appears to be accurate, as Wilhelm Reinig of Geisenbach does indeed have a daughter Margareta of the right age, and other children of Reinig serve as godparents to Hans (?) Roemer's children. d. I have doubts about the name of Johannes Roemer's father. The parents listed in Familysearch as of May 2015 (apparently based on the DGB info) are Hans Peter Roemer and Margaretha Reinig. When I went to verify this in the actual primary documents, I could not. The father listed in the birth entries of Johannes and his siblings is consistently either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer (with spelling variations on the last name; spelling didn't matter as much in the 1600s as in the 2010s). For Johann Jacob, Johannes's brother, the priest started to write someone else's name, then crossed it out and wrote Hans Adam. Eva's father is also listed as Hans Adam. There were two other Hans Adam Roemers bearing children in the parish at this time as well, which meant that delineation had to be clear in the records. One is having children at the same time in Schlierbach (another village in the same parish) -- meanwhile, our family is living in Geisenbach. I suppose it's *possible* that the priest mis-wrote the name--twice. But at the same time, this is the primary document there. I could find no trace of existing marriage records for this time and place, either microfilmed by the LDS church or otherwise, which is too bad, since it would clear up the problem easily. Possible explanations for this discrepancy: i. The pastor got confused and wrote down Hans Adam because there were so many of them, when really he was thinking of a different name. ii. The DGB data is based on land/court/occupational records instead of church records, and there were either errors in these records, or the researcher made some inaccurate assumptions. iii. I found a birth entry for a Hans Peter Roemer in the Birkenau parish record which could, by a bit of a stretch, fit in the right generation to be father to Johannes. Perhaps the researcher wanted to make this fit, so the supposition was made. However, there is also the record of the birth of a Hans Adam Roemer in the Waldmichelbach records for an even better age fit. (Both parishes covered the Geisenbach and Mengelbach areas.) Who knows which of the three Hans Adams it was. iv. There really is a marriage record squirreled away in an archive somewhere that no one (not even the historians writing about family records in Birkenau today) know about. e. In reviewing the DGB for the Ober Mengelbach Branch of Römers, we do find this family grouping with an Adam Römer who the right age to possibly be the Hans Adam Römer we are seeking. DGB provides no other information on him except for the birth date of 21 Jan 1646. Linking him for now would be premature without further corroborating evidence, but the information from DGB is as follows [see the notes of the earliest Römer in my database for the full DGB abstract]: ". Hans Römer, *Ober Mengelbach about 1620, + in the same place before 1695, mayor (Schultheiß), and owner of the Koch farm in Ober Mengelbach, oo Katharina (Cadel?), * (unknown), +20 Feb 1695 Ober Mengelbach. Children, born in Ober Mengelbach: 1. Adam, *21 Jan 1646, + unknown 2. Margaretha, *14 Aug 1648, + unknown 3. Johann Michael, * 1657, see VIa" D. Rose's comments on three of the children: "Some of these children may be one and the same person. We have an Anna, a Margaretha, and an Anna Margaretha. Anna Margaretha and Margaretha can't be the same person as they are married to different people at the same time. I suppose there's a chance that Anna and Anna Margaretha are the same person, but they may still be three distinct individuals." 2. Website http://gedbas.genealogy.net/person/show/1142171744 of "Manfred Mackert" (mailadress m_mackert@t-online.de) accessed 29 Apr 2017: Anna Gertrud RÖMER Religion: Lutherisch birth: 22 May 1691 verm. Geisenbach, OT v Mörlenbach, Hessen, Deutschland burial: Weinheim, Baden-Württemberg, Deutschland death: 24. November 1758 Ober-Mumbach, Mörlenbach, Hessen, Deutschland Parents: Hans Peter RÖMER & Margarethe REINIG Spouses: 20 January 1711 Weinheim, Baden-Württemberg, Deutschland -- Johann Jakob BRECHT Sources: Mundia | Römer, Anna Gertrud (I5038)
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| 4774 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The correct name for this individual's father and the make up of siblings is uncertain and conflicted. The names Hans Peter or Johann appear erroneous and Hans Adam seems to be the best option. Family researcher Rose Green has pioneered and led the research into this question. I quote first the two published German sources, then Rose's appraisal of the validity of the information these sources present, and then finally some comments on the correct father: A. Published German Sources: a. "DGB" = FHL book 943.D2dg, vol. 175, "Deutsches Geschlechtebuch/Hessisches Geschlechterbuch," by Hermann Thutewohl, (1977), pp. 252-255, provides a study of Hessian Römers which includes our American branch as follows. The same material is found in the "Hessian Lineage Book," vol. 20, 1977, publisher of CA Starke, Limburg an der Lahn. (Translation courtesy of Rose Green.) The book is German which I translate to English. Dates are European style day - month - year. Symbols: * = birth/christening; oo = married; + = death. The numbering system is per the book which I place in [brackets] for clarity: [Vb] Hans Peter Römer, * ... 11. 7. 1642, + Geisenbach 21. 3. 1730, bur. Weinheim 23. 3. 1730; named "the old Römer," owner of a "Hof" (farm/land with buildings) in Geisenbach; oo ... 20. 1. 1671 Margarethe Reinig, * ..., + Geisenbach 3. 2. 1719. Children born in Geisenbach: 1. Anna, * (calculated) 1671, + ..., Godmother on 22. 1. 1685. 2. Margarethe, * (calculated) 1673, + ..., oo ... Johann Nikolaus Schütz from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 3. Maria Margarethe, * 18. 11. 1674, + ..., Godmother on 10. 11. 1691; oo ... Hans Nikolaus Schuh from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 4. Johannes, * 10. 1. 1678, [s. VIb] 5. Johann Jakob, * 13. 11. 1681, [s. VIc, Schwetzinger main branch] 6. Eva, * 7. 2. 1685, + ... 7. Eva Elisabeth, * 8. 5. 1687, + ... 8. Anna Barbara, * 6. 5. 1688, + ...; oo ... 17. 11. 1705 ... moved to Schimbach. 9. Gertrud, * 26. 5. 1690, + ... 1758; oo ... Johann Jakob Brecht from Ober Mumbach, * ..., + ... b. "FM" = The book "Familienbuch Mörlenbach," by Dr. Otto Wagner, 1994: - 2857 m. vor 1670 Joh. Römer, Geisenbach, bei ihm dient 1683 Jakob Drϋber, 1721 Zeuge fϋr Verkauf von 1 1/2 Huben [383a] an [2669], u Anna N.N. Kdr.: (viell.) - Margarete, m. vor 1692 [3365†] - Anna, 1685 Pate [b. 1695] - Anna Margarete, 1683 Pate [1695], m. Ober-Absteinach 2.2.1695 Peter Helfrich of Unter-Absteinach. - Joh. Jakob, b. 13.11.1681, m. 17.11.1705 Kath. - Joh. Adam, m. Ober-Absteinach 7.6.1706 Elis. - Eva, *7.2.1685 - Eva Elis., b. Vöckelsbach ~~luth. Birkenau 5./12.5.1687 B. Rose Green's comments and analysis of the above two records with her own research into the church records of our Geisenbach branch of the Roemer family with Johannes Roemer, b. 1678, as a child. She prefaces her comments on the children by saying: "The only way to figure this out is to look at the primary sources -- making a decision based on secondary information that may or may not be correct isn't going to really solve the problem. I believe, without having the records right in front of me, that some individuals were discovered via marriage records and then other people discovered the same individuals via christening records. Even though the family lived in one concentrated area, the records are scattered through several different church books (i.e. geographically) and across more than one religion. The "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" is going to look primarily at Catholic records, since Moerlenbach is Catholic. The DGB seems to use both Lutheran records and some land records (the second of which I don't have access to). So I do think that at least one child is perhaps duplicated in this family. But we want to be very, very careful to make sure we don't eliminate a real person, either. But I do think that Maria Margaretha and Margaretha are the same person." a. Rose's comments regarding the DGB with some rearranging in the order of children: - Parents: Hans (Adam) Römer m. Margaretha Reinig in Geisenbach with children as follows. The first five children are from the Wald-Michelbach church records (Lutheran) and are certain: 1. Maria Margaretha, b. 18 Nov 1674, daughter of Hans Remer and Margaretha (godmother Margaretha wife of Hans Jorg Rehm, smith of Birkenau). 2. Johannes Remi, b. 10 Jan 1678, son of Hanss Remi (Römer) of Geisenbach, and wife Margaretha. Godfather was Hans Reinig, Wilhelm Reinig's son of Geisenbach (i.e. the uncle). 3. Johann Jakob Rheme, b. 13 Nov 1681, son of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha his wife. Godfather was Hans Jacob Erhardt/Erhanger/Erhanyer? of Geisenbach (the name is extremely difficult to read). 4. Eva Rheme, b. 7 Feb 1685, daughter of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva, wife or daughter of Niclaus Erhardt of Geisenbach. 5. Eva Elisabeth Rheme, b. 8 May 1687, daughter of Hans Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva the ? of Nicolaus Reinig of Geisenbach. [See note below about the confusion in birthdates of 5 or 8 May.] - Rose's comments of the other children that show up in the DGB: 6. Anna, abt 1671 (DGB). This lists her as a godmother on 22 Jan 1685. I presume she is named as the daughter of Hans Roemer of Geisenbach here; I would like to see the record for myself (the DGB however does not say where and for whom she was a godmother.) 7. Margarethe, b. abt 1673, married to Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach, son of Hans Nikolaus Schütz of Geisenbach, about 1692 and had three children whose births are recorded in the Lutheran church book of Wald-Michelbach for Birkenau as well as the Familienbuch Moerlenbach. Her son was godfather to Johann Michael Roemer of Birkenau (the son of Johannes Roemer). Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach was godfather to another of Johannes Roemer's children, Johann Nikolaus (1712). The record explicitly says that this man is the brother-in-law of Johannes Roemer. So yes, I believe this one! Most likely the same as #1 above. 8. Maria Margarethe, b. 18 Nov 1674, was a godmother on 10 Nov 1691 (where? DGB doesn't list it), and married "Hans Nikolaus Schuh of Geisenbach." She looks awfully like #7 to me. In a place with a population of less than 100 people, are there really two different individuals named Hans Nikolaus Schuh and Hans Nikolaus Schütz, both married to Margaretha Romer? Most likely the same as #1 and #7. 9. Anna Barbara, b. 6 May 1688 (from DGB): this looks awfully like the girl born in Gras-Ellenbach to Hans and Catharina Romer. 10. Gertrud, b. 26 May 1690, married Johann Jacob Brecht of Ober Mumbach (according to the DGB). I'm not saying this can't be her, but I didn't see a Gertrud in the book. b. Comments regarding on the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna. Moerlenbach is adjacent to Birkenau and was largely Catholic; however, both Lutherans and people from the Birkenau parish wandered over there, and so some of them show up in their records too. As you can see, there is some overlap with the HGB, but they aren't completely congruent. The children this book lists are as such: 1. Yes: Margaretha, married bef 1692 (this would be the one who married Joh. Nikolaus Schutz; so far, so good). 2. Yes: Anna, a godmother in 1685 (same as above; would like to see this, but if they are naming her as the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach, then I'm cool with that. I just would like to know who she is being godmother to, as those often happen among close family members.) 3. Maybe: Anna Margaretha, godmother in 1683 (to whom, and where?); married Peter Helferich of Unter-Abtsteinach on 2 Feb 1695 in Ober-Abtsteinach. (That is a Catholic place.) This should be independently verified in the original marriage record (i.e. that she is the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach in specific), since I didn't find her in the birth records. Another child in this family, Johannes, had a second wife was also a Helferich, and also Catholic. 4. Yes: Johann Jakob, b. 13 Nov 1681. According to the Moerlenbach book, he married Anna Katerina Reinig of Schimbach on 17 Nov 1705 in Schimbach, and had a number of children, the first ones in Schimbach and later ones in Schwetzingen. Yes, this son is correct. 5. No: Joh. Adam, married 7 Jun 1706 Elisabeth daughter of Adam Heckman in Ober-Abtsteinach (Catholic). Hmm ... Sorry, I didn't see that person in Geisenbach. Perhaps they are confusing him with the one born in Schönmattenwag in 1678? There are so many people running around with this same name in a small area, but definitely not in Geisenbach. 6. Yes: Eva, b. 7 Feb 1685. Yes, this is correct. 7. Yes: Eva Elisabeth, b. 5 May 1687. Yes, she is in the church record, too, although it is Wald-Michelbach (with village Geisenbach) that she appears. I don't know why the FM says that she was born in Voelkelsbach and christened 12 May 1687 in Birkenau. The date on the church record is very difficult to read, and perhaps it really is 5 and not 8. I see that she was christened the 12th, but the actual record says nothing about Voekelsbach. C. Rose's comments as to who is the correct father of our Roemer family of Geisenbach and of his marriage: a. "I did have a chance to look at the Birkenau film again, but unfortunately I didn't find anything new on it. I also didn't find any other suggestions to explain the Hans Peter Roemer shown in DGB. Seriously, in all the records I see, he is not the father in this family. He's either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer. I've been to Geisenbach -- there are three houses and one of them is new since the 1600s. There is zero mention of Hans Peter Roemer in Geisenbach in this time period in the church records. I think that the only way to solve this problem is to access some land or court or civil records, but they are not on microfilm. Maybe if I live there again, I'll have a look; I just don't know how to get at something like that from here, or even what exactly it is I need." b. "Regarding the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna." c. The DGB also lists a specific marriage date for him, which if found would likely give more information about him -- but this church record cannot be found (i.e. the parish records for marriages as they presently stand begin in 1671 after the supposed marriage date). The wife's maiden name of Reinig, however, appears to be accurate, as Wilhelm Reinig of Geisenbach does indeed have a daughter Margareta of the right age, and other children of Reinig serve as godparents to Hans (?) Roemer's children. d. I have doubts about the name of Johannes Roemer's father. The parents listed in Familysearch as of May 2015 (apparently based on the DGB info) are Hans Peter Roemer and Margaretha Reinig. When I went to verify this in the actual primary documents, I could not. The father listed in the birth entries of Johannes and his siblings is consistently either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer (with spelling variations on the last name; spelling didn't matter as much in the 1600s as in the 2010s). For Johann Jacob, Johannes's brother, the priest started to write someone else's name, then crossed it out and wrote Hans Adam. Eva's father is also listed as Hans Adam. There were two other Hans Adam Roemers bearing children in the parish at this time as well, which meant that delineation had to be clear in the records. One is having children at the same time in Schlierbach (another village in the same parish) -- meanwhile, our family is living in Geisenbach. I suppose it's *possible* that the priest mis-wrote the name--twice. But at the same time, this is the primary document there. I could find no trace of existing marriage records for this time and place, either microfilmed by the LDS church or otherwise, which is too bad, since it would clear up the problem easily. Possible explanations for this discrepancy: i. The pastor got confused and wrote down Hans Adam because there were so many of them, when really he was thinking of a different name. ii. The DGB data is based on land/court/occupational records instead of church records, and there were either errors in these records, or the researcher made some inaccurate assumptions. iii. I found a birth entry for a Hans Peter Roemer in the Birkenau parish record which could, by a bit of a stretch, fit in the right generation to be father to Johannes. Perhaps the researcher wanted to make this fit, so the supposition was made. However, there is also the record of the birth of a Hans Adam Roemer in the Waldmichelbach records for an even better age fit. (Both parishes covered the Geisenbach and Mengelbach areas.) Who knows which of the three Hans Adams it was. iv. There really is a marriage record squirreled away in an archive somewhere that no one (not even the historians writing about family records in Birkenau today) know about. e. In reviewing the DGB for the Ober Mengelbach Branch of Römers, we do find this family grouping with an Adam Römer who the right age to possibly be the Hans Adam Römer we are seeking. DGB provides no other information on him except for the birth date of 21 Jan 1646. Linking him for now would be premature without further corroborating evidence, but the information from DGB is as follows [see the notes of the earliest Römer in my database for the full DGB abstract]: ". Hans Römer, *Ober Mengelbach about 1620, + in the same place before 1695, mayor (Schultheiß), and owner of the Koch farm in Ober Mengelbach, oo Katharina (Cadel?), * (unknown), +20 Feb 1695 Ober Mengelbach. Children, born in Ober Mengelbach: 1. Adam, *21 Jan 1646, + unknown 2. Margaretha, *14 Aug 1648, + unknown 3. Johann Michael, * 1657, see VIa" D. Rose's comments on three of the children: "Some of these children may be one and the same person. We have an Anna, a Margaretha, and an Anna Margaretha. Anna Margaretha and Margaretha can't be the same person as they are married to different people at the same time. I suppose there's a chance that Anna and Anna Margaretha are the same person, but they may still be three distinct individuals." | Römer, Anna (I2716)
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| 4775 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The correct name for this individual's father and the make up of siblings is uncertain and conflicted. The names Hans Peter or Johann appear erroneous and Hans Adam seems to be the best option. Family researcher Rose Green has pioneered and led the research into this question. I quote first the two published German sources, then Rose's appraisal of the validity of the information these sources present, and then finally some comments on the correct father: A. Published German Sources: a. "DGB" = FHL book 943.D2dg, vol. 175, "Deutsches Geschlechtebuch/Hessisches Geschlechterbuch," by Hermann Thutewohl, (1977), pp. 252-255, provides a study of Hessian Römers which includes our American branch as follows. The same material is found in the "Hessian Lineage Book," vol. 20, 1977, publisher of CA Starke, Limburg an der Lahn. (Translation courtesy of Rose Green.) The book is German which I translate to English. Dates are European style day - month - year. Symbols: * = birth/christening; oo = married; + = death. The numbering system is per the book which I place in [brackets] for clarity: [Vb] Hans Peter Römer, * ... 11. 7. 1642, + Geisenbach 21. 3. 1730, bur. Weinheim 23. 3. 1730; named "the old Römer," owner of a "Hof" (farm/land with buildings) in Geisenbach; oo ... 20. 1. 1671 Margarethe Reinig, * ..., + Geisenbach 3. 2. 1719. Children born in Geisenbach: 1. Anna, * (calculated) 1671, + ..., Godmother on 22. 1. 1685. 2. Margarethe, * (calculated) 1673, + ..., oo ... Johann Nikolaus Schütz from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 3. Maria Margarethe, * 18. 11. 1674, + ..., Godmother on 10. 11. 1691; oo ... Hans Nikolaus Schuh from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 4. Johannes, * 10. 1. 1678, [s. VIb] 5. Johann Jakob, * 13. 11. 1681, [s. VIc, Schwetzinger main branch] 6. Eva, * 7. 2. 1685, + ... 7. Eva Elisabeth, * 8. 5. 1687, + ... 8. Anna Barbara, * 6. 5. 1688, + ...; oo ... 17. 11. 1705 ... moved to Schimbach. 9. Gertrud, * 26. 5. 1690, + ... 1758; oo ... Johann Jakob Brecht from Ober Mumbach, * ..., + ... b. "FM" = The book "Familienbuch Mörlenbach," by Dr. Otto Wagner, 1994: - 2857 m. vor 1670 Joh. Römer, Geisenbach, bei ihm dient 1683 Jakob Drϋber, 1721 Zeuge fϋr Verkauf von 1 1/2 Huben [383a] an [2669], u Anna N.N. Kdr.: (viell.) - Margarete, m. vor 1692 [3365†] - Anna, 1685 Pate [b. 1695] - Anna Margarete, 1683 Pate [1695], m. Ober-Absteinach 2.2.1695 Peter Helfrich of Unter-Absteinach. - Joh. Jakob, b. 13.11.1681, m. 17.11.1705 Kath. - Joh. Adam, m. Ober-Absteinach 7.6.1706 Elis. - Eva, *7.2.1685 - Eva Elis., b. Vöckelsbach ~~luth. Birkenau 5./12.5.1687 B. Rose Green's comments and analysis of the above two records with her own research into the church records of our Geisenbach branch of the Roemer family with Johannes Roemer, b. 1678, as a child. She prefaces her comments on the children by saying: "The only way to figure this out is to look at the primary sources -- making a decision based on secondary information that may or may not be correct isn't going to really solve the problem. I believe, without having the records right in front of me, that some individuals were discovered via marriage records and then other people discovered the same individuals via christening records. Even though the family lived in one concentrated area, the records are scattered through several different church books (i.e. geographically) and across more than one religion. The "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" is going to look primarily at Catholic records, since Moerlenbach is Catholic. The DGB seems to use both Lutheran records and some land records (the second of which I don't have access to). So I do think that at least one child is perhaps duplicated in this family. But we want to be very, very careful to make sure we don't eliminate a real person, either. But I do think that Maria Margaretha and Margaretha are the same person." a. Rose's comments regarding the DGB with some rearranging in the order of children: - Parents: Hans (Adam) Römer m. Margaretha Reinig in Geisenbach with children as follows. The first five children are from the Wald-Michelbach church records (Lutheran) and are certain: 1. Maria Margaretha, b. 18 Nov 1674, daughter of Hans Remer and Margaretha (godmother Margaretha wife of Hans Jorg Rehm, smith of Birkenau). 2. Johannes Remi, b. 10 Jan 1678, son of Hanss Remi (Römer) of Geisenbach, and wife Margaretha. Godfather was Hans Reinig, Wilhelm Reinig's son of Geisenbach (i.e. the uncle). 3. Johann Jakob Rheme, b. 13 Nov 1681, son of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha his wife. Godfather was Hans Jacob Erhardt/Erhanger/Erhanyer? of Geisenbach (the name is extremely difficult to read). 4. Eva Rheme, b. 7 Feb 1685, daughter of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva, wife or daughter of Niclaus Erhardt of Geisenbach. 5. Eva Elisabeth Rheme, b. 8 May 1687, daughter of Hans Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva the ? of Nicolaus Reinig of Geisenbach. [See note below about the confusion in birthdates of 5 or 8 May.] - Rose's comments of the other children that show up in the DGB: 6. Anna, abt 1671 (DGB). This lists her as a godmother on 22 Jan 1685. I presume she is named as the daughter of Hans Roemer of Geisenbach here; I would like to see the record for myself (the DGB however does not say where and for whom she was a godmother.) 7. Margarethe, b. abt 1673, married to Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach, son of Hans Nikolaus Schütz of Geisenbach, about 1692 and had three children whose births are recorded in the Lutheran church book of Wald-Michelbach for Birkenau as well as the Familienbuch Moerlenbach. Her son was godfather to Johann Michael Roemer of Birkenau (the son of Johannes Roemer). Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach was godfather to another of Johannes Roemer's children, Johann Nikolaus (1712). The record explicitly says that this man is the brother-in-law of Johannes Roemer. So yes, I believe this one! Most likely the same as #1 above. 8. Maria Margarethe, b. 18 Nov 1674, was a godmother on 10 Nov 1691 (where? DGB doesn't list it), and married "Hans Nikolaus Schuh of Geisenbach." She looks awfully like #7 to me. In a place with a population of less than 100 people, are there really two different individuals named Hans Nikolaus Schuh and Hans Nikolaus Schütz, both married to Margaretha Romer? Most likely the same as #1 and #7. 9. Anna Barbara, b. 6 May 1688 (from DGB): this looks awfully like the girl born in Gras-Ellenbach to Hans and Catharina Romer. 10. Gertrud, b. 26 May 1690, married Johann Jacob Brecht of Ober Mumbach (according to the DGB). I'm not saying this can't be her, but I didn't see a Gertrud in the book. b. Comments regarding on the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna. Moerlenbach is adjacent to Birkenau and was largely Catholic; however, both Lutherans and people from the Birkenau parish wandered over there, and so some of them show up in their records too. As you can see, there is some overlap with the HGB, but they aren't completely congruent. The children this book lists are as such: 1. Yes: Margaretha, married bef 1692 (this would be the one who married Joh. Nikolaus Schutz; so far, so good). 2. Yes: Anna, a godmother in 1685 (same as above; would like to see this, but if they are naming her as the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach, then I'm cool with that. I just would like to know who she is being godmother to, as those often happen among close family members.) 3. Maybe: Anna Margaretha, godmother in 1683 (to whom, and where?); married Peter Helferich of Unter-Abtsteinach on 2 Feb 1695 in Ober-Abtsteinach. (That is a Catholic place.) This should be independently verified in the original marriage record (i.e. that she is the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach in specific), since I didn't find her in the birth records. Another child in this family, Johannes, had a second wife was also a Helferich, and also Catholic. 4. Yes: Johann Jakob, b. 13 Nov 1681. According to the Moerlenbach book, he married Anna Katerina Reinig of Schimbach on 17 Nov 1705 in Schimbach, and had a number of children, the first ones in Schimbach and later ones in Schwetzingen. Yes, this son is correct. 5. No: Joh. Adam, married 7 Jun 1706 Elisabeth daughter of Adam Heckman in Ober-Abtsteinach (Catholic). Hmm ... Sorry, I didn't see that person in Geisenbach. Perhaps they are confusing him with the one born in Schönmattenwag in 1678? There are so many people running around with this same name in a small area, but definitely not in Geisenbach. 6. Yes: Eva, b. 7 Feb 1685. Yes, this is correct. 7. Yes: Eva Elisabeth, b. 5 May 1687. Yes, she is in the church record, too, although it is Wald-Michelbach (with village Geisenbach) that she appears. I don't know why the FM says that she was born in Voelkelsbach and christened 12 May 1687 in Birkenau. The date on the church record is very difficult to read, and perhaps it really is 5 and not 8. I see that she was christened the 12th, but the actual record says nothing about Voekelsbach. C. Rose's comments as to who is the correct father of our Roemer family of Geisenbach and of his marriage: a. "I did have a chance to look at the Birkenau film again, but unfortunately I didn't find anything new on it. I also didn't find any other suggestions to explain the Hans Peter Roemer shown in DGB. Seriously, in all the records I see, he is not the father in this family. He's either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer. I've been to Geisenbach -- there are three houses and one of them is new since the 1600s. There is zero mention of Hans Peter Roemer in Geisenbach in this time period in the church records. I think that the only way to solve this problem is to access some land or court or civil records, but they are not on microfilm. Maybe if I live there again, I'll have a look; I just don't know how to get at something like that from here, or even what exactly it is I need." b. "Regarding the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna." c. The DGB also lists a specific marriage date for him, which if found would likely give more information about him -- but this church record cannot be found (i.e. the parish records for marriages as they presently stand begin in 1671 after the supposed marriage date). The wife's maiden name of Reinig, however, appears to be accurate, as Wilhelm Reinig of Geisenbach does indeed have a daughter Margareta of the right age, and other children of Reinig serve as godparents to Hans (?) Roemer's children. d. I have doubts about the name of Johannes Roemer's father. The parents listed in Familysearch as of May 2015 (apparently based on the DGB info) are Hans Peter Roemer and Margaretha Reinig. When I went to verify this in the actual primary documents, I could not. The father listed in the birth entries of Johannes and his siblings is consistently either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer (with spelling variations on the last name; spelling didn't matter as much in the 1600s as in the 2010s). For Johann Jacob, Johannes's brother, the priest started to write someone else's name, then crossed it out and wrote Hans Adam. Eva's father is also listed as Hans Adam. There were two other Hans Adam Roemers bearing children in the parish at this time as well, which meant that delineation had to be clear in the records. One is having children at the same time in Schlierbach (another village in the same parish) -- meanwhile, our family is living in Geisenbach. I suppose it's *possible* that the priest mis-wrote the name--twice. But at the same time, this is the primary document there. I could find no trace of existing marriage records for this time and place, either microfilmed by the LDS church or otherwise, which is too bad, since it would clear up the problem easily. Possible explanations for this discrepancy: i. The pastor got confused and wrote down Hans Adam because there were so many of them, when really he was thinking of a different name. ii. The DGB data is based on land/court/occupational records instead of church records, and there were either errors in these records, or the researcher made some inaccurate assumptions. iii. I found a birth entry for a Hans Peter Roemer in the Birkenau parish record which could, by a bit of a stretch, fit in the right generation to be father to Johannes. Perhaps the researcher wanted to make this fit, so the supposition was made. However, there is also the record of the birth of a Hans Adam Roemer in the Waldmichelbach records for an even better age fit. (Both parishes covered the Geisenbach and Mengelbach areas.) Who knows which of the three Hans Adams it was. iv. There really is a marriage record squirreled away in an archive somewhere that no one (not even the historians writing about family records in Birkenau today) know about. e. In reviewing the DGB for the Ober Mengelbach Branch of Römers, we do find this family grouping with an Adam Römer who the right age to possibly be the Hans Adam Römer we are seeking. DGB provides no other information on him except for the birth date of 21 Jan 1646. Linking him for now would be premature without further corroborating evidence, but the information from DGB is as follows [see the notes of the earliest Römer in my database for the full DGB abstract]: ". Hans Römer, *Ober Mengelbach about 1620, + in the same place before 1695, mayor (Schultheiß), and owner of the Koch farm in Ober Mengelbach, oo Katharina (Cadel?), * (unknown), +20 Feb 1695 Ober Mengelbach. Children, born in Ober Mengelbach: 1. Adam, *21 Jan 1646, + unknown 2. Margaretha, *14 Aug 1648, + unknown 3. Johann Michael, * 1657, see VIa" D. Rose's comments on three of the children: "Some of these children may be one and the same person. We have an Anna, a Margaretha, and an Anna Margaretha. Anna Margaretha and Margaretha can't be the same person as they are married to different people at the same time. I suppose there's a chance that Anna and Anna Margaretha are the same person, but they may still be three distinct individuals." | Römer, Maria Margaretha (I2715)
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| 4776 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The correct name for this individual's spouse and the make up of children is uncertain and conflicted. The names Hans Peter or Johann appear erroneous and Hans Adam seems to be the best option. Family researcher Rose Green has pioneered and led the research into this question. I quote first the two published German sources, then Rose's appraisal of the validity of the information these sources present, and then finally some comments on the correct father: A. Published German Sources: a. "DGB" = FHL book 943.D2dg, vol. 175, "Deutsches Geschlechtebuch/Hessisches Geschlechterbuch," by Hermann Thutewohl, (1977), pp. 252-255, provides a study of Hessian Römers which includes our American branch as follows. The same material is found in the "Hessian Lineage Book," vol. 20, 1977, publisher of CA Starke, Limburg an der Lahn. (Translation courtesy of Rose Green.) The book is German which I translate to English. Dates are European style day - month - year. Symbols: * = birth/christening; oo = married; + = death. The numbering system is per the book which I place in [brackets] for clarity: [Vb] Hans Peter Römer, * ... 11. 7. 1642, + Geisenbach 21. 3. 1730, bur. Weinheim 23. 3. 1730; named "the old Römer," owner of a "Hof" (farm/land with buildings) in Geisenbach; oo ... 20. 1. 1671 Margarethe Reinig, * ..., + Geisenbach 3. 2. 1719. Children born in Geisenbach: 1. Anna, * (calculated) 1671, + ..., Godmother on 22. 1. 1685. 2. Margarethe, * (calculated) 1673, + ..., oo ... Johann Nikolaus Schütz from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 3. Maria Margarethe, * 18. 11. 1674, + ..., Godmother on 10. 11. 1691; oo ... Hans Nikolaus Schuh from Geisenbach (?), * ..., + ... 4. Johannes, * 10. 1. 1678, [s. VIb] 5. Johann Jakob, * 13. 11. 1681, [s. VIc, Schwetzinger main branch] 6. Eva, * 7. 2. 1685, + ... 7. Eva Elisabeth, * 8. 5. 1687, + ... 8. Anna Barbara, * 6. 5. 1688, + ...; oo ... 17. 11. 1705 ... moved to Schimbach. 9. Gertrud, * 26. 5. 1690, + ... 1758; oo ... Johann Jakob Brecht from Ober Mumbach, * ..., + ... b. "FM" = The book "Familienbuch Mörlenbach," by Dr. Otto Wagner, 1994: - 2857 m. vor 1670 Joh. Römer, Geisenbach, bei ihm dient 1683 Jakob Drϋber, 1721 Zeuge fϋr Verkauf von 1 1/2 Huben [383a] an [2669], u Anna N.N. Kdr.: (viell.) - Margarete, m. vor 1692 [3365†] - Anna, 1685 Pate [b. 1695] - Anna Margarete, 1683 Pate [1695], m. Ober-Absteinach 2.2.1695 Peter Helfrich of Unter-Absteinach. - Joh. Jakob, b. 13.11.1681, m. 17.11.1705 Kath. - Joh. Adam, m. Ober-Absteinach 7.6.1706 Elis. - Eva, *7.2.1685 - Eva Elis., b. Vöckelsbach ~~luth. Birkenau 5./12.5.1687 B. Rose Green's comments and analysis of the above two records with her own research into the church records of our Geisenbach branch of the Roemer family with Johannes Roemer, b. 1678, as a child. She prefaces her comments on the children by saying: "The only way to figure this out is to look at the primary sources -- making a decision based on secondary information that may or may not be correct isn't going to really solve the problem. I believe, without having the records right in front of me, that some individuals were discovered via marriage records and then other people discovered the same individuals via christening records. Even though the family lived in one concentrated area, the records are scattered through several different church books (i.e. geographically) and across more than one religion. The "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" is going to look primarily at Catholic records, since Moerlenbach is Catholic. The DGB seems to use both Lutheran records and some land records (the second of which I don't have access to). So I do think that at least one child is perhaps duplicated in this family. But we want to be very, very careful to make sure we don't eliminate a real person, either. But I do think that Maria Margaretha and Margaretha are the same person." a. Rose's comments regarding the DGB with some rearranging in the order of children: - Parents: Hans (Adam) Römer m. Margaretha Reinig in Geisenbach with children as follows. The first five children are from the Wald-Michelbach church records (Lutheran) and are certain: 1. Maria Margaretha, b. 18 Nov 1674, daughter of Hans Remer and Margaretha (godmother Margaretha wife of Hans Jorg Rehm, smith of Birkenau). 2. Johannes Remi, b. 10 Jan 1678, son of Hanss Remi (Römer) of Geisenbach, and wife Margaretha. Godfather was Hans Reinig, Wilhelm Reinig's son of Geisenbach (i.e. the uncle). 3. Johann Jakob Rheme, b. 13 Nov 1681, son of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha his wife. Godfather was Hans Jacob Erhardt/Erhanger/Erhanyer? of Geisenbach (the name is extremely difficult to read). 4. Eva Rheme, b. 7 Feb 1685, daughter of Hans Adam Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva, wife or daughter of Niclaus Erhardt of Geisenbach. 5. Eva Elisabeth Rheme, b. 8 May 1687, daughter of Hans Rheme of Geisenbach and Margaretha. Godmother Eva the ? of Nicolaus Reinig of Geisenbach. [See note below about the confusion in birthdates of 5 or 8 May.] - Rose's comments of the other children that show up in the DGB: 6. Anna, abt 1671 (DGB). This lists her as a godmother on 22 Jan 1685. I presume she is named as the daughter of Hans Roemer of Geisenbach here; I would like to see the record for myself (the DGB however does not say where and for whom she was a godmother.) 7. Margarethe, b. abt 1673, married to Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach, son of Hans Nikolaus Schütz of Geisenbach, about 1692 and had three children whose births are recorded in the Lutheran church book of Wald-Michelbach for Birkenau as well as the Familienbuch Moerlenbach. Her son was godfather to Johann Michael Roemer of Birkenau (the son of Johannes Roemer). Johann Nikolaus Schutz of Geisenbach was godfather to another of Johannes Roemer's children, Johann Nikolaus (1712). The record explicitly says that this man is the brother-in-law of Johannes Roemer. So yes, I believe this one! Most likely the same as #1 above. 8. Maria Margarethe, b. 18 Nov 1674, was a godmother on 10 Nov 1691 (where? DGB doesn't list it), and married "Hans Nikolaus Schuh of Geisenbach." She looks awfully like #7 to me. In a place with a population of less than 100 people, are there really two different individuals named Hans Nikolaus Schuh and Hans Nikolaus Schütz, both married to Margaretha Romer? Most likely the same as #1 and #7. 9. Anna Barbara, b. 6 May 1688 (from DGB): this looks awfully like the girl born in Gras-Ellenbach to Hans and Catharina Romer. 10. Gertrud, b. 26 May 1690, married Johann Jacob Brecht of Ober Mumbach (according to the DGB). I'm not saying this can't be her, but I didn't see a Gertrud in the book. b. Comments regarding on the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna. Moerlenbach is adjacent to Birkenau and was largely Catholic; however, both Lutherans and people from the Birkenau parish wandered over there, and so some of them show up in their records too. As you can see, there is some overlap with the HGB, but they aren't completely congruent. The children this book lists are as such: 1. Yes: Margaretha, married bef 1692 (this would be the one who married Joh. Nikolaus Schutz; so far, so good). 2. Yes: Anna, a godmother in 1685 (same as above; would like to see this, but if they are naming her as the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach, then I'm cool with that. I just would like to know who she is being godmother to, as those often happen among close family members.) 3. Maybe: Anna Margaretha, godmother in 1683 (to whom, and where?); married Peter Helferich of Unter-Abtsteinach on 2 Feb 1695 in Ober-Abtsteinach. (That is a Catholic place.) This should be independently verified in the original marriage record (i.e. that she is the daughter of Hans Romer of Geisenbach in specific), since I didn't find her in the birth records. Another child in this family, Johannes, had a second wife was also a Helferich, and also Catholic. 4. Yes: Johann Jakob, b. 13 Nov 1681. According to the Moerlenbach book, he married Anna Katerina Reinig of Schimbach on 17 Nov 1705 in Schimbach, and had a number of children, the first ones in Schimbach and later ones in Schwetzingen. Yes, this son is correct. 5. No: Joh. Adam, married 7 Jun 1706 Elisabeth daughter of Adam Heckman in Ober-Abtsteinach (Catholic). Hmm ... Sorry, I didn't see that person in Geisenbach. Perhaps they are confusing him with the one born in Schönmattenwag in 1678? There are so many people running around with this same name in a small area, but definitely not in Geisenbach. 6. Yes: Eva, b. 7 Feb 1685. Yes, this is correct. 7. Yes: Eva Elisabeth, b. 5 May 1687. Yes, she is in the church record, too, although it is Wald-Michelbach (with village Geisenbach) that she appears. I don't know why the FM says that she was born in Voelkelsbach and christened 12 May 1687 in Birkenau. The date on the church record is very difficult to read, and perhaps it really is 5 and not 8. I see that she was christened the 12th, but the actual record says nothing about Voekelsbach. C. Rose's comments as to who is the correct father of our Roemer family of Geisenbach and of his marriage: a. "I did have a chance to look at the Birkenau film again, but unfortunately I didn't find anything new on it. I also didn't find any other suggestions to explain the Hans Peter Roemer shown in DGB. Seriously, in all the records I see, he is not the father in this family. He's either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer. I've been to Geisenbach -- there are three houses and one of them is new since the 1600s. There is zero mention of Hans Peter Roemer in Geisenbach in this time period in the church records. I think that the only way to solve this problem is to access some land or court or civil records, but they are not on microfilm. Maybe if I live there again, I'll have a look; I just don't know how to get at something like that from here, or even what exactly it is I need." b. "Regarding the "Familienbuch Moerlenbach" -- I think they are way messed up. I saw zero record of Johann Romer of Geisenbach married to anyone named Anna." c. The DGB also lists a specific marriage date for him, which if found would likely give more information about him -- but this church record cannot be found (i.e. the parish records for marriages as they presently stand begin in 1671 after the supposed marriage date). The wife's maiden name of Reinig, however, appears to be accurate, as Wilhelm Reinig of Geisenbach does indeed have a daughter Margareta of the right age, and other children of Reinig serve as godparents to Hans (?) Roemer's children. d. I have doubts about the name of Johannes Roemer's father. The parents listed in Familysearch as of May 2015 (apparently based on the DGB info) are Hans Peter Roemer and Margaretha Reinig. When I went to verify this in the actual primary documents, I could not. The father listed in the birth entries of Johannes and his siblings is consistently either Hans or Hans Adam Roemer (with spelling variations on the last name; spelling didn't matter as much in the 1600s as in the 2010s). For Johann Jacob, Johannes's brother, the priest started to write someone else's name, then crossed it out and wrote Hans Adam. Eva's father is also listed as Hans Adam. There were two other Hans Adam Roemers bearing children in the parish at this time as well, which meant that delineation had to be clear in the records. One is having children at the same time in Schlierbach (another village in the same parish) -- meanwhile, our family is living in Geisenbach. I suppose it's *possible* that the priest mis-wrote the name--twice. But at the same time, this is the primary document there. I could find no trace of existing marriage records for this time and place, either microfilmed by the LDS church or otherwise, which is too bad, since it would clear up the problem easily. Possible explanations for this discrepancy: i. The pastor got confused and wrote down Hans Adam because there were so many of them, when really he was thinking of a different name. ii. The DGB data is based on land/court/occupational records instead of church records, and there were either errors in these records, or the researcher made some inaccurate assumptions. iii. I found a birth entry for a Hans Peter Roemer in the Birkenau parish record which could, by a bit of a stretch, fit in the right generation to be father to Johannes. Perhaps the researcher wanted to make this fit, so the supposition was made. However, there is also the record of the birth of a Hans Adam Roemer in the Waldmichelbach records for an even better age fit. (Both parishes covered the Geisenbach and Mengelbach areas.) Who knows which of the three Hans Adams it was. iv. There really is a marriage record squirreled away in an archive somewhere that no one (not even the historians writing about family records in Birkenau today) know about. e. In reviewing the DGB for the Ober Mengelbach Branch of Römers, we do find this family grouping with an Adam Römer who the right age to possibly be the Hans Adam Römer we are seeking. DGB provides no other information on him except for the birth date of 21 Jan 1646. Linking him for now would be premature without further corroborating evidence, but the information from DGB is as follows [see the notes of the earliest Römer in my database for the full DGB abstract]: ". Hans Römer, *Ober Mengelbach about 1620, + in the same place before 1695, mayor (Schultheiß), and owner of the Koch farm in Ober Mengelbach, oo Katharina (Cadel?), * (unknown), +20 Feb 1695 Ober Mengelbach. Children, born in Ober Mengelbach: 1. Adam, *21 Jan 1646, + unknown 2. Margaretha, *14 Aug 1648, + unknown 3. Johann Michael, * 1657, see VIa" D. Rose's comments on three of the children: "Some of these children may be one and the same person. We have an Anna, a Margaretha, and an Anna Margaretha. Anna Margaretha and Margaretha can't be the same person as they are married to different people at the same time. I suppose there's a chance that Anna and Anna Margaretha are the same person, but they may still be three distinct individuals." 2. Family research Rose Green reports (May 2015) the following two additional pieces of information: A. She has not had any success in finding the 1671 reported marriage of Hans Adam Roemer and Margaretha Reinig in Wald-Michelbach or Birkenau. She postulates that another book to look in for the generation of Hans (Adam?) Romer (and maybe that 1671 marriage?) is Rimbach. In 1693, French soldiers came in and purposely destroyed the church books in Rimbach; however, Rose indicates she saw a note somewhere that from 1636-1660s, Rimbach folks went up to Gronau, so that is also an option to look at. We may just be caught by those soldiers' vandalism, though. B. In addition to the Hans (Adam?) Roemer in Geisenbach, there was a Hans Roemer having children in Schönmattenwag and also Schlierbach at the same time. They are all in the Wald-Michelbach church records. But only one family that she can see in Geisenbach. Geisenbach is tiny. In 1829, there were 3 houses and 27 people. She has been there and also saw only three houses. Probably they were there when Hans' son Johannes lived there. She indicates that she doesn't see more than one Hans Roemer living there at a time, unless they are father and son. | Reinig, Margaretha (I2702)
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| 4777 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The exact parentage of John Peter Graybill seems to be divided between two opinions at this point: (1) John Graybill born abt. 1727 in Germany and possibly d. bef 7 Oct 1766 in Mannheim, Lancaster, PA and (2) "Old" Peter Graybill, b. 16 Oct 1727 in Switzerland or Germany and d. after 11 Mar 1811 in Johnsville, Frederick, MD. Some speculate that "Old" Peter may actually be John Peter or that both may have been brothers. It should be noted that in German tradition, it was not unusual to give children several first names with sometimes some of the first names being used for more than one child. There does not seem to be any doubt, however, that he is of Swiss/German Palatinate heritage. I give notes, but no conclusion either way, for these two directions as follows: A. John, the father of Peter: mentioned in great-great grandson William's biography per two sources: www.rootsweb.com/~iaharris/ and FHL book 977.747-H2n, partial excerpt: "History of Harrison County, Iowa," 1891, pp. 686, 687: "William A. Graybill... To learn something of his early career the reader will be informed that he was born July 28, 1840, in Adams County, Ill., and accompanied his parents, who were among the early pioneers to locate in Pottawattamie County, Iowa, coming, as they did, before Council Bluffs had an existence, that location then being known as Miller's Hollow. Our subject remained with his parents until 1864. For nine years prior his father, himself and brothers A. J. & L., kept bachelor's hall in Pottawattamie County. [His father] Simeon P. Graybill was born March 26, 1816, in Jackson County, Ohio, and was the son of Mr. Graybill, a native of New York and of German ancestry. The father, Michael Graybill, was the son of Peter Graybill, who was born in Pennsylvania and married Christena Wampler, who had been taken prisoner by the Delaware Indians when a child and kept with the tribe for seven years and then returned to her parents. Peter Graybill was a son of John Graybill who came from Germany in the days of [before?] the Revolutionary War. Simeon Graybill's father, Michael, was married to Polly Stoker, in Ashe County, N. C., May 1811, removed to Jackson County, Ohio, and reared a family of eleven children: David, Catharine, Simeon, Levi, George, Lenore, Julian, Michael, Mary Ann, Elizabeth and Sidney." B. "Old" Peter, possibly John Peter: mentioned in the book "Graybill/Stoker/Eller/Smith/Koons/Pitt Connections," by Norman E. "Gene" Pitt, 1996, FHL book 929.273 P658pn: Pp. 3-6: "The first two generations below, namely John and Christian are presented with some trepidation and should not be considered absolutely valid. John Graybill: b. probably in Switzerland; md. to ___. He emigrated to the German Palatinate, probably about 1690. Their children may have included Christian. Christian Graybill [son of John above]: b. abt 1690, probably in Switzerland or the German Palatinate; md. to Mary ___. He and John Graybill emigrated to America in 1727 aboard the ship 'Friendship' which sailed from Rotterdam. Their children may have included John(?) Peter, aka 'Old' Peter by some current family researchers who still are trying to unravel 'Old' Peter's ancestry. Possibly John(?) following, is 'Old' Peter's brother instead of 'Old' Peter's first name. This mystery is left to future researchers to resolve. John(?) 'Old' Peter Graybill [possible son to Christian above]: b. 16 Oct 1727, probably Switzerland or Germany; d. bef 11 Mar 1811, Johnsville, Frederick Co., MD; md. abt 1750 to Mary ___. She was b. abt 1730; d. bef 1815, Johnsville, Frederick Co., MD. Peter apparently lived Friendship, York Co., PA and Lancaster Co., PA before moving to Johnsville, Frederick Co., MD. Their children included Elizabeth, John, Saree, John Peter, Francy and Joseph. Some of the children may have taken the names Grabel, Grabill, Graybeal, and Grable... The records of Old Peter and his children, other than Michael Peter, are courtesy of Paul Phipps, a descendant of Henry Graybeal and Celia Henson, who acquired them from various sources. [Children:] a. Elizabeth Grabel, b. abt 1754, probably PA; md. to Joseph Eller. He was b. abt 1754, probably Lancaster Co., PA. b. John Grabill, b. 13 Mar 1758, probably Lancaster Co., PA; d. 13 Feb 1844, Johnsville, Frederick Co., MD; md. to Anna Garber. She was b. abt 1764; d. aft 1829, Johnsville, Frederick Co., MD. Their children were Christina, Magdalin, Abraham, Susanna, Charlotte, Hannah, and Peter [see book for more detailed downline]. c. Sara "Saree" Grabel, b. abt 1760, probably Lancaster Co., PA; md. 17 Feb 1811 to Adam Smith. He was b. abt 1760. d. John Peter Graybill, b. 3 Oct 1762, probably in Lancaster or York Co., PA... [see his notes for more information; also note there is no actual documentation given in the book definitely tying this individual to the other siblings or noted father]. e. Francy Grabel, b. abt 1765, probably Lancaster Co., PA; d. abt 1838, probably Randolph Twp., Montgomery Co., OH; md. abt 1783, Frederick Co., MD to Henry Eller, Jr. He was b. Abt 1760, probably Lancaster Co., PA; d. 1832, Randolph Twp., Montgomery Co., OH. Their children were a daughter name unknown, Daniel, Christina, Mary, Abraham, Frances, Henry, Sarah, Elizabeth, Anna, and Joseph. [See book for more on these children and their descendants.] f. Joseph Grable, Sr., b. abt 1770, Frederick Co., MD; d. 1844, Bethlehem Twp., Washington Co., PA; md. abt 1792, Frederick Co., MD to Barbara Garber. She was b. 1771, Frederick Co., MD; d. 1851 West Bethlehem Twp., Washington Co., PA. Their children were Nancy, Daniel, Samuel, Susanna, Rebecca, Elizabeth, and Joseph. [See book for more on these children and their downlines.]" Pp. 8 and 9: Transcription of "Old" Peter Graybill's Last Will and Testament follows: "I Peter Grabill of Frederick County and State of Maryland being weak in Body but of sound and disposing memory and understanding do therefore make and publish this my last will and Testament in manner and form following after just debts and funeral charges are paid it is my will and I order that my beloved wife shall hold one third of my money now by me and what is owing to me and it is my will and I order that my Executor hereafter named shall pay my daughter Saree fifteen pounds yearly for taking care of her mother and then fifteen pounds which is to be paid to my Daughter Sara shall be taken out of my estate before the money is Divided and after it is my will and I order that my Executor shall Divide the remainder of my cash now by me and make my children all Equal share and Share alike unto my son Peter one share unto my son John one Share unto my Daughter Elizabeth one share unto my Daughter Francy one share unto my son Joseph one share my Daughter Francy one share unto my son Joseph one share my Daughter Francy has received one hundred pounds more than the rest of my children and them hundred pounds shall be in part of her share and my son Joseph had fifty pounds more than the rest and that shall be in part of his share and Daughter Elizabeth had received fifteen pounds more and that shall be part of her share. And it is my will and I order that my wife shall hold all my Household and kitchen furniture and cows and every thing about the House and Barn during her life and after her Decease my Executor shall sell my property and the money Equaly to be Divided among my parcel of children-And Lastly I do hereby constitute and Appoint my son John Grabill to be the sole Executor of this my last will and Testament revoking and annulling all former wills by me heretofore made ratifying and confirming this and one other to be my last will and Testament - Whereof I have unto my hand and fixed my seal this Eleventh Day of March in the year one thousand Eight Hundred and Eleven. His Peter X mark. Signed Sealed and Delivered by Peter Grabill the above named Testator as and for his last will and Testamont in the presence of and who at his request in his presence and in the presence of each other have subscribed our names as witness thereto. Johannes Wampler, Martin Garbor." "Frederick County to wit on the 2 day of November 1812 then came John Grabill and solomnly and sincerely affirmed and declared that the foregoing instrument of writing is the true whole will and Testamont of Pete Grabill lat of Frederick County Deceased that hath come to his hands and possession and that he dothe not know of an other. Signed, Dick Butler. " "Frederick County to wit on the 2 day of November 1812 then came Martin Garber one of the subscribing witness to the signing last will and testament of Peter Grabill late of Frederick County Deceased and Solemnly and Sincerely Affirmed and Declared that he did see the Testator therein named sign and seal this will he heard him publish pronounce and declare the same to be his last will and testament that at the time of his signing he was to the best of his apprehension of a sound and disposing mind and memory and understanding that he subscribed his name as a witness to this will in the presence and at the request of the Testator and that he did also see John Wampler the other subscribing witnesses sign his name as a witness to said will in the presence and at the request of the Testator and all in the presence of each other. Dick Butler, Sign." [Note: if Old Peter Graybill turns out to be the correct ancestry, then review the following website which has much information on Old Peter's children and their descendants: Rootsweb.com Worldconnect database ":480580".] 2. In regards to "Old" Peter Graybill being this individual, additional comment in the online "Eller Chronicles": A. Vol. IV No. 4. p. 4 Nov. 1990, by the Eller Family Association, has the following additional comments: "Madeline Fletcher of Ft. Collins, CO. shared some research material collected by her late mother, Chloe Louisa (Welker) Evans, in the 1950's: "Peter Grabill, Sr. will dated 11 Mar 1811 and proved 2 Nov. 1812 Frederick Co., MD. By witnesses Johannes Wampler and Martin Garber. Daughter Saree was to care for her unnamed mother; children Peter, John, Elizabeth, Franey, Joseph. Will Liber R.B.I., Folio 327. "Final account by Executor John Grabel filed 26 Apr. 1813. Fanny w/o Henry Eller, Joseph Grabel, Elizabeth w/o Joseph Eller, Peter & John Grabel." "Note: The widow nor Saree are here named. Administrators Accounts for Estates 1812-7, pp. 192-3." "I feel that a deed issued by Peter the same day his will was written provides the name of his wife as Mary. A 40 acre tract was being sold to John Grabill. Deed Liber W.R. 39, Folio 561. Born in 1858, John died in 1844 and was buried on his farm along the Molasses Rd. near Johnsville, MD." "Peter, Jr. wed Christina Wampler and moved to Ashe Co., N.C. Among their children, Barbara and Michael respectively wed David and Polly, children of Michael & Catherine (Eller) Stoker)" B. Vol. VII No 4, Nov 1993, p. 308, excerpts of a talk given by Paul J. Phipps of Orting, WA, on 17 July 1993 at the Eller Family Association Conference held in Portland, OR [note that Paul believes "Old" Peter to be correct]: "Two of 'Old' Peter Grabill's daughters married two of Henry Eller Sr.'s sons. Namely, Elizabeth Grabill married Joseph Eller, and Francy Grabill married Henry Eller Jr." [Note: Henry is in my database.] "I do have a framework of the 6 children of 'Old' Peter and Mary Grabill. I think the first 5 children were probably born in Lancaster Co., PA. The youngest child was probably born in Frederick Co., MD. a. Elizabeth b. abt 1754, married Joseph Eller. I have very little on this family. b. John b. 13 Nov 1755, married Anne Garber. They lived and died in Frederick Co., MD. There were 4 children. c. Sara b. abt 1760, married Adam Smith Jr. I have very little on this family. d. Peter Sr. b. abt 1760, married Christina Wampler. They moved to VA in abt 1780 and were in Wilkes Co. (now Ashe Co.), NC in abt 1785. I have over 4000 descendants in my computer. There were 10 children. e. Francy b. abt 1765, married Henry Eller Jr. They moved to Washington Co., PA in abt 1787, then to Montgomery Co., OH in abt 1815. There were 11 children. f. Joseph b. abt 1770, married Barbara Garber. They moved to Washington Co., PA in abt 1805. There were 7 children. "Pertinent Wills and Deeds all recorded and filed In Frederick Co., MD are as following: a. Deed of Old Peter Grabill, dtd. 21 Aug. 1769 b. Will of Old Peter Grabill, dtd. 11 Mar. 1811 [Quoted above.] c. Will of Peter Wampler Jr., dtd. 9 June 1792 [Quoted in Peter's notes.] d. Deed of Joseph Eller (son of Henry Sr.), dtd. 21 Apr. 1794 e. Will of John Grabill (son of Old Peter), dtd. 12 Mar. 1829" 3. There is a pay website www.MennoSearch.com by Richard W. Davis in Provo, Utah in which he indicates that he has been able to identify the European origin of most of the Krehbiel/Kraehenbuell/Graybill/Crabill emigrants who arrived in Pennsylvania between the years 1725 and 1800. They settled principally in Lancaster, Lebanon, and York Counties in Pennsylvania and spread to Maryland and Virginia before 1750. Most of these Krehbiels were Mennonites and emigrated from the areas around Weierhof, Treschklingen and Altleiningen in Germany. He says he has followed them back further to Switzerland. He also mentions other cities in Germany: Ibersheim, Muckenhhauserhof, Alsheim, Obersulzen, Gerolsheim, and Dirmstein. I have not spent the $60 fee but I did find his information at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City in book FHL 949.4 W2d, V.2. It unfortunately provides no proven connection with our Graybills. All of his names he provides are in Switzerland. 4. FHL book "Ashe County, A History," by Arthur L. Fletcher, published by Ashe County Research Association, Inc., Jefferson, N.C., p. 89, has the following info that may or may not be accurate: "The Graybeal family, of Dutch ancestry, came to the area before it was a county and contributed much to building a sound foundation for the new county. So did the Ellers who came to Ashe from the Jersey Settlement, now in Davison County, and settled on the North Fork of New River." 5. Concerning the birth date and parentage of John Peter Graybill who married Christina Wampler per Rootsweb.com Worldconnect database ":480580," in which the book, "Heritage of Ashe Co., NC" is referenced [Kerry's note: I reviewed this book at FHL in Salt Lake City - FHL book 975.6835 D3h V.1]: "There's a lot of controversy about the date of "Peter Sr" Graybeal/Graybill's birth. His gravestone in Jackson Co, OH says that he died in 1848, aged "about 80" (thus born c 1768). But since Peter and Christina's first Child, Henry, was born c 1777 [I say 1780], it's unlikely that Peter could have been born in 1768. Recently, Billie Sue Graybeal discovered a second, older gravestone for Peter in the same (Madison Furnace/Callaghan) cemetery. That one shows Peter's death date as "___ust 1842, aged 8_." The frequently-seen 1762 birth-date might come from the 1842 old-stone death date along with the "about 80" age on the newer stone. But even 1762 would seem too late, as Peter would have been only 15 at the birth of his son Henry - - unlikely [unless Henry was born in 1780]. For now, I'm considering his birth year to have been ca 1755. Thus, he would have been 21 at his marriage, 22 at the birth of Henry, and 87 at his death, consistent with the data on the old stone. The 1755 date was also used by the late Herman Stoker, but with no documentation as to how he arrived at it. The Ashe Heritage book account also mentions 1755, but then suggests that Peter was a son of John - a conclusion now refuted by Joseph Piatt in his paper on the Frederick Co, MD Grabils. Based on Paul Phipps "discovery" of that paper, I now consider Peter ("Old Peter") and Mary Grebel of Frederick Co, MD as the most likely parent-candidates. Per comments of Herb Bohler Flemington, NJ." 6. FHL Book 929.273, film 6005243, "John Jacob Eller and His Descendants with Other Pre-1800 Eller Immigrants to America," by the Eller Family Association, 1998, 817-297-1280, Chapter 1, concerning migration patterns in Colonial North Carolina and early pre-1800 immigrants: "When the Ellers... arrived in Pennsylvania, they found all the productive land occupied, or available only at high prices. In the favored easterly sections, the cost of farms was almost prohibitive. Under these conditions the newly arrived German immigrants began to move southward, some stopping in Maryland, and some in the Shenandoah Valley. When word came of cheap and abundant land in North Carolina, particularly in Rowan County, that became the choice destination for a growing stream of German migrants who traveled south on the Great Wagon Road... [The Ellers presumed path from their homeland was] German Palatinate - Rhine River - Rotterdam - England - Philadelphia - Montgomery County, Pennsylvania - Great Wagon Road - Crane Creek on the Yadkin River in Rowan County, North Carolina... Their arrival there began about 1745, the number increased markedly prior to 1760, and except for a decline during the French and Indian War, continued until the Revolutionary War. A large number of Scotch-Irish settlers had settled in Rowan County, and taken up the most fertile land prior to the arrival of the Germans. This left the land of less fertile soil to the east and southeast of Salisbury for the Germans." "In colonial times two major travel routes entered North Carolina from the north. The Great Wagon Road began in Philadelphia, passed through the Shenandoah Valley, and entered the northern border of North Carolina. After crossing the Yadkin River at the 'Shallow Ford' west of Winston-Salem, North Carolina, the road continued south to Rowan County and beyond. This was the route taken by most of the Pennsylvania Germans who came to North Carolina." "Another route known as the Trading Path began in tide-water Virginia at Petersburg and joined the Great Wagon Road at the Trading Ford on the Yadkin River only a few miles east of the present town of Salisbury, Rowan County, North Carolina… Until after the French and Indian War, which ended in 1761, the Indians, principally the Catawba and Cherokee tribes, were not far to the west of Salisbury." "From the Trading Ford, the road continued southward into Cabarrus and Mecklenburg Counties and on into South Carolina. Situated strategically at the confluence of major travel and trading routes, Salisbury, founded in 1755, remained for decades the most western frontier town in North Carolina. Rowan County extended westward beyond the Appalachian Mountains to include the present state of Tennessee. This gave the distinction to Rowan County of being the largest ever in the United States. The trans-mountain region was destined to become the state of Tennessee in 1796, but first it was a part of the Cherokee Indian Nation, as was most of the mountain area of present western North Carolina… [It was] reported that settlers were coming from the north in hundreds of wagons, and in 1755 it was reported that 5,000 had crossed the James river in Virginia bound for Rowan County..." "[During the French and Indian War of 1759-1760 which disrupted life in Rowan County, immigrant] Christian Eller [was] listed in a militia company in 1759 that was called up after an Indian attack near Salisbury. (Clark-1983, p. 851. Christian Eller listed on 'muster roll of Captain Morgan Bryan's Scouts.")…Three young Eller men from Rowan County fought in the Revolutionary War (John Melchior Eller, son of immigrant John Jacob Eller; John and Joseph Eller, other probable sons of immigrant John Jacob Eller.)…" "North Carolina is unique among coastal states in that settlement did not spread from the coast, but from the north and south… Also, from South Carolina came new settlers who settled in the western part of the state [of North Carolina]… In the last 16 years of the Colonial Era… south bound traffic along the Great Wagon Road was numbered in the tens of thousands. It was the most heavily traveled road in all America… A significant number [of settlers] moved to the head waters of the Yadkin River, then crossed the Appalachians on the Boon Trail, to settle… in an area that was destined to become the northeastern corner of the state of Tennessee… Some descendants of immigrant Eller families of Rowan County were drawn toward the western frontier. Peter Eller, eldest son of George Michael Eller, moved to the headwaters of the Yadkin in time to acquire choice land in Wilkes (now Ashe) County, North Carolina. George Eller, eldest son of Christian Eller, moved to the southeastern corner of Virginia; and John Jacob Eller, Jr., eldest son of John Jacob Eller, crossed the mountains, perhaps as early as 1779, into the Holston Valley in the future state of Tennessee…" "The Germans… usually left Pennsylvania just after fall harvest and mad the journey down the Valley of Virginia in time to arrive in the fall, build their homes, and plant crops in the spring…" 7. Nauvoo LDS Land and Records Office research file (copy in my possession as of 2 Jun 2007) provides the following information (also partially viewable at www.earlylds.com): "Our Family History Dating Back as Far as 1748," by Vivian Graybill: Graybill is a German name which probably means "dweller near a ditch." There are thirteen ways of spelling Graybill, Grabeel, Graybeal, Grabiel, Grabel, etc. the first spelling being Krehenbuth, is of Swiss origin. Christian Graybill, which is five generations back from Mary Ellen Graybill Mercer, was the first settler of our family coming from England, as Mennonites driven to Germany, Holland and England. (According to Mrs. Duvall of Walkerville, Maryland, she says the family history shows that Christian Graybeal was married to the daughter of King George III of England, whose name was Mary. She forsake the Church of England to become a Tundker, she had taken her money and rigged up a ship and went on to buy ten more ships.) Christian Graybeal's grandson, Peter Graybill, Sr. married Cristena Wampler, daughter of Peter and Barbara Wampler in 1780. Cristena, along with her little sister and a neighbor Child, was captured by the Delaware Indians and kept captive for seven years. The Indians were good to them and raised them as their own. When an exchange of prisoners took place, great Grandpa Wampler didn't know the children until Cristena sang her mother's lullaby. There is more to this story. One of the writers, Florence Wilson of Omaha, now deceased, refers to our ancestor, Conrad Grebel, connected with the early Ana Baptist people (before Mennonites) in Switzerland, as early as 1526. Conrad Grebel was born in the late 1400's, and according to Florence Wilson can be traced as far back as Ceasar Augustus, Conrad Grebel's descendants John and Christian Graybill, came over on the "Friendship" in 1727, leaving Rotterdam in 1726, landing in Philadelphia and later moved south. The Mennonites people in their historic preservation of Graybill records at Lancaster, Pennsylvania, have confirmed to us as late as July 1975, what several of our writers from coast to coast have offered as evidence of our early Graybill ancestors for several years. Twas a gratifying experience and brought joy to our souls and when things are clear and we don't have to guess, or suppose, or conjecture, the experience is very rewarding. [Missing pages] ..." 8. The book "Graybill/Stoker/Eller/Smith/Koons/Pitt Connections," by Norman E. "Gene" Pitt, 1996, FHL book 929.273 P658pn, p. 3: "The Graybill name is of Swiss and German origin, and today there are many variants of the name including Grabil, Grabill, Grabel, Grable, and Graybeal. The name originally seems to have been Kraehenbuehl. The name Kraehenbuehl is found in Switzerland today and was used at the time or our ancestors as it is today with several variations. However, they all have the same literal meaning: Kraehen = crow and buehl = hill. At the Swiss Reformed Church at Grosshoechstetten inside the parsonage is a stained glass panel dated 1669 which depicts a crow on a blue shield for two members of the Kraehenbuehl family. There also is a village named Kraehenbuehl in Aargau, Switzerland. In his book, 'The Homeland of the First Settlers in Lancaster Co. (PA),' Prof. Oscar Kuhns writes that the Kraehenbuehls lived in the Canton of Berne, Switzerland. One Hans Kraehenbuehl was one of many Swiss Brethren (later called Swiss Anabaptists) involved in a dispute with the Swiss government in 1538. In 1664, the Elector Karl Ludwig of the German Palatinate granted a concession permitting Mennonites to settle in his territory under certain restrictions. The archives in Baden, Germany of the Palatinate Mennonite census lists after 1664 include the Kreybeuls, Krayenbuels and Krahenbuhls, ancestors of the Graybills. They were members of the various 'peace churches' of that time. Considerable data on these and Graybills and their descendants is included in a book on the Graybills by Edward Earl Reeves-Graybill of Spencerville, MD. The Graybills left the Palatinate with many other Swiss-Germans for the port of Rotterdam, where they sailed for America. John and Christian Graybill were among those Palatinates aboard the ship 'Friendship' which came to America from Rotterdam in 1727. [Many Palatines sailed through Holland on English ships.] Other relatives were in this same movement of people from the 'peace churches' of the Swiss area to the German Palatinate, then (from Dutch ports) sailing to the German communities in Pennsylvania. They settled mainly in Lancaster and York Counties in PA and, as more land was needed, they moved to other German settlements around Frederick Co., MD and Rowen Co., NC. (Rowen later was divided into smaller counties of Ashe and Wilkes.) These other relatives included the neighboring families of Gatrost, Eller, Koons, Dick, and Wampler." 9. Index of miscellaneous deeds from the book "Our Stoker Family Histories 1731-1881," Vol. II, comp. and ed. by Elayne Stoker, 2004, printed by Stevenson's Genealogy Center, Provo, UT. I am not sure of the relationship, if any, of all the parties herein listed and this is for reference only: "Some Frederick County Maryland Deeds: E-125 Joseph Grable to Jacob Funk, March 20, 1753 E-509 Joseph Grable to Jacob Funk, August 21, 1754 Agreement F-244 Joseph Grable to Jacob Funk, May 28, 1757 F-393 Joseph Grable from James ___, February 11, 1758 K-782 Joseph Grable to Jacob Roland, November 19, 1766 K-782 Samuel Grable from Leonard White, November 14, 1766 K-743 Joseph Grable to Jacob Funk - Release K-803 Martin Garver from Jacob Danner, December 19, 1766 K-1284 Henry Eller to Jacob Flora, June 6, 1767 L-515 John Garver from Jacob Danner, October 1, 1768 N-396 Leonard Kitzmiller from Samuel Stringer, October 10, 1770 N-505 Peter Wampler from Richard Coroxal, December 15, 1770 S-96 George Michael Eller from Edward Gaither O-3 Henry Eller to David Buzzard, January 14, 1771 L-665 John Grable to Jacob Roland, May 1772 P-128 Henry Eller from Leonard Kitzmiller, June 13, 1772 P-110 Leonard Kitzmiller to Samuel Carver, June 13, 1772 BD1-539 John Garver to Jacob Danner, May 22, 1775- did not find BD6-34 John Grabill to Jacob Danner, June 20, 1775 WR-2-543 Peter Grable to Michael Christ, May 26, 1779 WR-3-71 John Grabell to Wm. Renner, July 27, 1782 GM2-444 Peter Wampler, 1782 WR-4-98 Peter Grable to Michael Christ, May 26, 1779 WR-6-4 Henry Eller to Philip Fishburn, June 22, 1784 WR-6-84 Henry Eller to Francis B. Sappington, August 19, 1784 WR-3-205 John Grable from John Bowman, Bill of Sale WR-7-332 John Grable and others to George Kitzburger, June 12, 1787 WR-7-616 John Grable to Paul Clapsdale, December 4, 1787 WR-8-505 John Grable from John Shuk, June 8, 1789 Bill of Sale WR-9-194 John Grable from Sam Cole, April 30, 1790 WR-9-250 John Grable from Joseph Boyer, June 1, 1790 WR-9-46 Peter Grable from Martin Sheets, July 8, 1790 WR-9-546 Peter Grable from Henry Repp, December 7, 1790 WR-11-279 John Garber and others, September 24, 1791, Agreement WR-11-210 John Wampler to Lazarus Findburg, November 21, 1792 WR-11-199 Joseph Wampler from Michael Baer, November 19, 1792 WR-11-587 Joseph Eller from Jacob Baer, May 31, 1793 WR 12-41 John Garber, Upton Scott and others, May 9, 1794 Agreement WR 12-445 John Grable from Balser Riam, June 3, 1794 WR 12-447 John Grable from Balser Riam, June 3, 1794 WR 12-456 John Grable to Christian Ebey, June 6, 1794 WR 12-451 John Grable to Christian Ebey, June 6, 1794 WR 12-535 John Grable from Conrad Cragon, August 14, 1794 WR 12-516 John Grable to Rebecca Reynolds, July 30, 1794 WR 13-153 John Grable to Conrad Hi , March 26, 1795 WR 13-126 Joseph Eller from Frederick Murray, March 24, 1795 WR 13-449 Martin Garber from Richard Cook, August 11, 1795 WR 13-263 Martin Garber from Philip Fishburn, May 6, 1795 WR 15-481 John Grable from Negro Bill, July 5, 1797 WR 15-595 Joseph Eller from John Kerr, September 6, 1797 WR 15-518 Martin Garber from Richard Coal, August 8, 1797 WR 15-519 Joseph Grable from Martin Garber, August 8, 1797 WR 15-395 David Wampler from Joseph Grable, June 8, 1797 WR 17-44 Jacob Grable from Wm. Hardin, May 24, 1798 WR 19-71 David Wampler from Christian Simmons, October 8, 1799 WR 12-245 Peter Wampler from Samuel Chase, March 1794 WR 16-463 John Wampler from Joseph Baker, May 2, 1795 WR 17-302 John Garber from ___ Scott, October 2, 1798 WR 19-247 Joseph Eller from Jacob Young, January 16, 1800 WR 19-250 Joseph Eller to Jacob Pofsbarger, January 17, 1800 WR 19-252 Joseph Eller to Michael Minor Sr., January 17, 1800 WR 19-444 John Wampler to John Iler, April 16, 1800 WR 21-466 John Grable from Christian Leasner, September 17, 1801 WR 21-541 Jacob Garber to Joseph Baker, October 21, 1801 WR 23-227 Martin Carver and others to Samuel Garber, July 29, 1802 WR 23-228 Samuel Garber from Christian Garber and others, July 29, 1802 WR 23-229 Samuel Garber and others to Christian Garber, July 29, 1802 WR 23-231 John Garber from John Wampler, July 29, 1802 WR 23-234 John Wampler to Martin Garber, July 29, 1802 WR 22-548 Moses Grable from Craig Marshall, May 15, 1802 WR 20-41 Martin Garber from Wm. Head, June 21, 1800 WR 20-43 Martin Garber from Peter Kramer, June 28, 1800 WR 22-4 Moses Grable to Michael Freeze, November 3, 1801 WR 25-579 John Garber from Israel Bigler, May 8, 1804 WR 26-71 John Garber from Anna Garber and others, September 5, 1804 WR 27-544 Joseph Grable to Peter Grable, October 10, 1805 WR 39-561 John Grable from Peter Grable, May 22, 1811 WR 42-380 John Grable and others to State of Maryland, May 31, 1813 WR 44-85 John Grable to Louis Mottier, April 5, 1813" 10. Website http://files.usgwarchives.net/nc/ashe/deeds/deedsabs.txt accessed 14 Dec 2008: "Ashe County, NC - Deeds - Abstracts of selected deeds." This file was contributed for use in the USGenWeb Archives by Kyle R. Graybeal krgrebiel@verizon.net, 37 Spring Lake Drive, Stafford, VA 22554. Revised 9 October 2001. This file contains abstracts of selected deeds from Ashe County, North Carolina Land records, mostly involving Graybeal family members. The information contained herein does not constitute the sum total of deeds in the Ashe County records involving Graybeal individuals. There are a few incomplete fields in some records especially in acreage, land description & witness names. This means that I have not copied them, not that the information is missing from the court records. The file now includes more deeds and has been corrected for errors dealing with land grants appearing in the original file. In the original file, the entry date and the date the deed was signed were reversed. This new file corrects that problem. Information sorted in date order, which is yyyy-mm-dd. Grantee & Grantor names are [last], [first]. Witness names are [first], [last]. NFNR = North Fork of New River. Mn and Vn means Deed Books M new and V new respectively. Information in [ ] inserted by me and correct to the best of my knowledge. Information in ( ) added for clarification. Price paid, proven date, and registered date not included to save space. I have this information on most deeds in case it is desired. Some compass directions are indicated by N, S, etc., rather spelled out. Deeds for state grants did not require witnesses' signatures. The indication that a particular person signed with an "x" is not consistent from record to record in this transcription. {Kerry's note: I have refined the list so as to cut it off after whom I think may be the first generation after John Peter Graybill and Christina Wampler; see that more complete list with John Peter Graybill - this partial list are for those only including the name of Peter Graybill. The ones marked "Sr." below are probably the original John/Peter followed by Peter (1783-1868). Note also that the junior Peter had a grandson named Peter (1840-1904) in the area as well.}: State (NC) TO: Craybell, Peter [Sr] 33 a., Grant: 2492, Ent: 1794-10-30; Signed: 1790-12-27; S. side of S. Beaver Creek/Groves corner & line; Book: A, 034. May, Abraham TO: Graybeal, Peter [Sr] 170 a.; Signed: 1799-04-07; Both sides New River @ White's line/P. Henson Corner/NFNR; Book: D, 109; Witness: S. Hubbard, Henry Graybeal. Graybell, Peter TO: Pouts, Peter 33 a.; Signed: 1800-11-10; South side of Beaver Creek/Groves Corner & line; Book: A, 278; Witness: Anarun Pouts, Wm. McNies, David (x) Burket. May, Abraham TO: Graybeal, Peter 60 a.; Signed: 1805-11-12; Running up the River to a stake/to a Spanish Oak/Paul Henson crnr as was; Book: Mn, 171; Witness: James B. Bunyard, Nancy Bunyard. Crider, Michael TO: Graybeal, Peter [Jr] 41 a.; Signed: 1810; Buffalo Creek, North Fork of New River. Book: D, 213; Witness: John Rowland, David Griffith. Nall, Robert TO: Graybeal, Peter 100 a.; Signed: 1810; Round Knob of Phoenix Mt., join Michael Crider/waters of Buffalow, NFNR; Book: Vn, 425; Witness: John Kessler, John Burkard. Graybeal, Peter TO: Brown, Peter 60 a. Signed: 1810-07-03; North Fork of New River, Paul Henson's corner. Book: M, 172; Witness: Jas. Fletcher, Henry Graybeal. Graybeal, Peter TO: Bowers, Peter 170 a.; Signed: 1810-07-03; Both sides of NFNR/the River Bank @ White's line/James Henson. Book: Mn, 161; Witness: Henry Graybeal, James Fletcher. State (NC) TO: Graybeal, David 50 a., Grant: 0782, Ent: 1811-02-01; Signed: 1811-02-01; On Horse Ck/S 110, E 72, Jacob Eller's Line, N 110, 1st Station. Book: Mn, 295; Witness: Peter Graybeal, Henry Eller. Crider, Michael TO: Graybeal, Peter 320 a.; Signed: 1811-06-24; Buffalo Ck/west side Phoenix Mt/east side Paddies Mt. Book: Vn, 430; Witness: John Kessler, John Perry. Graybell, Peter TO: Duncan, James 141 a.; Signed: 1814-03-23 p/o 2 tracts on a branch of Buffalo Ck/waters North Fork New River. Book: C, 412; Witness: Thomas Calloway. Graybeal, Peter TO: Graybeal, David 100 a. Signed: 1814-04-05; Old Field Creek/waters of Big Horse Creek. Book: TT, 241; Witness: Henry Graybeal, James Lewis. Graybell, Peter TO: Bowers, Peter 60 a.; Signed: 1815-05-09; On the River. Book: C, 389; Witness: James B. Bunyard, Francis Bryan. May, Abraham TO: Graybeal, Peter [Jr] 150 a.; Signed: 1820-08-30; Both sides of Little Piney Creek/waters of NFNR. Book: E, 340; Witness: William Thomas, Joseph Sutherland. Burket, Daniel TO: Graybeal, Peter 200a.; Signed: 1823-11-26; On the Waters of Beaver Ck, waters of NFNR. Book: E, 345; Witness: Thomas Calloway, H. W. Britt. State (NC) TO: P. Graybeal & C. Burkett 100a., Grant: 1275, Ent: 1825-02-08; Signed: 1827-01-04; Buffalo Creek in Lenoir's Line. Book: C, 90. State (NC) TO: Graybeal, Peter [Jr] 15 a., Grant: 1270, Ent: 1825-10-13. Signed: 1827-01-04. His old corner/running N w/his old line/Griffeths crnr & line. Book: C, 058. Griffeth, David TO: Graybeal, Peter 246 a.; Signed: 1828-11-22; 1st tract 96a Buffalo Ck/agreed crnr A. May, D. Burkett/2nd trct 50a/100; Book: E, 482; Witness: John Hamilton, Peter Earnest. Calloway, Thomas TO: Graybeal, Peter 300 a.; Signed: 1831-11-29; Orig deed was 250 a/this deed describes new area/Old Field Ck/S. Fork NR; Book: E, 481; Witness: John Ray, Jurat; Wm H. Calloway. Gentry, Ephraim TO: Graybeal, Peter 200 a.; Signed: 1832-11-13; On Old Field Creek waters S. fork NR/agreed line Gentry & J. Foutz; Book: E, 466; Witness: Wm Hamilton. Ray, John TO: Graybeal, Peter [Jr] 130 a.; Signed: 1834-11-11; J. Fletcher's line/Old Field Ck/stake in Wilcoxen's old line; Book: Vn, 368. Graybeal, Peter [Jr] TO: Graybeal, David 188 a.; Signed: 1838-10-17; Land on NFNR held in trust for Susan Hauck & her children. Book: Mn, 525; Witness: R. Gentry. Graybeal, Peter TO: Graybeal, David & John 188 a.; Signed: 1839; Land held in trust for Susan Hauck & her children. Book: Mn, 425; Witness: R. Gentry. Graybeal, Peter TO: Graybeal, John 300 a.; Signed: 1839-02-20; Old Fields Creek/Branch S. Fork of N. River/Orig conveyed by T Calloway; Book: Mn, 026; Witness: Absolom Faw. Graybeal, Peter TO: Graybeal, John ? a.; Signed: 1844-04-27; Book: P, 229. Graybeal, P. TO: Elliot, Wm & Stephen 0 a. Signed: 1844-11-18; Gift of sorrel mare and two cows; Book: N, 234. Graybeal, Peter [Jr] TO: Graybeal, Dav 245 a.; Signed: 1846-02-24; Book: O, 069; Witness: Joseph Perkins. Graybeal, Peter TO: Graybeal, David ? a.; Signed: 1849-11-22; Book: P, 144. Waugh & Murcheson TO: Graybeal, Peter 250 a.; Signed: 1851-08-07; Book: S, 223. Graybeal, Peter [Jr] TO: Graybeal, John ? a.; Signed: 1852-10-09; Book: S, 098. Graybeal, Peter TO: Graybeal, John 25 a.; Signed: 1855-06-06; Book: Y, 217. Graybeal, David TO: Graybeal, Peter 371.5 a.; Signed: 1859-01-26; 5 tracts on Buffalo Creek/96a, 49a, 100a, 26.5a, 100a. Book: U, 092. Graybeal, Peter (x) TO: Elliot, Jean, et al 50 a.; Signed: 1862-09-02; Little Horse Ck, stake in old line, Abram Hamm crnr/on the Long Branch; Book: Vn, 190; Witness: John Weaver. 11. From the book "Our Stoker Family Histories 1731-1881," Vol. II, comp. and ed. by Elayne Stoker, 2004, printed by Stevenson's Genealogy Center, Provo, UT in an article entitled "Our Grable History": "We are told in several places that our Grable and Garber ancestors were German speaking Swiss or Germans from the Palatinate. The Palatinates today are the states of Bavaria (Upper Palatinate) and Rhineland-Palatinate (Lower Palatinate). The Ellers and Wamplers that we will say something of are of the same general background. We suspect but do not know those we are concerned with immigrated to America around 1750. To date our earliest Grable ancestor we find is the Peter Craple of the Will RB 1-327, March 1, 1811, Frederick County, Maryland. He is found in Frederick County buying property in a tract of land called "Hammond's Strife" as early as 1769. This is in tax District No. 1, Unity and Burt House Wood Hundreds (do not have this located on map yet). Peter could easily be an immigrant but it is fairly unlikely that we will be able to identify him further. There is a suggestion (will cover later) that Peter came to Frederick County from Virginia. Peter's wife's name was Mary. The Will names Daughters Saree, Elizabeth and Francey and sons Peter, John and Joseph. Saree in the Will is to be paid for the care of her mother. The Administrative Account does not mention Saree. This after the Will states that the children would get equal shares. We do not know where Peter and Mary are buried but it is likely in a farm cemetery close to where Peter probably lived when he died, on Molasses Road just East of Johnsville where son John's descendent Reno (and Mary) Grabill now live. It is possible that Peter and Mary are buried with son John on the upper McCullar farm (only John's grave is marked) farther East on Molasses Road. Going East from Johnsville on Molasses Road we come to Reno Grabills, the Dotterer farm, then just across Beaver Dam Creek is the lower McCullar farm and then the Upper McCullar farm all on the right side going East and the farthest point (at Fountain School Road) is only 2-1/4 miles from Johnsville. These properties are in the tracts "Ivy Church" and "Hammond's Strife." On the Isaac Bond map, 1858, Abraham Grabill, John's son owned the Reno Grabill place, the Dotterer farm and a farm east of the Dotterer and South of Greene Valley Road (Turnpike to Union Bridge). Abraham also owned a house and lot on Green Valley Road just out of Johnsville before one gets to the Methodist Church. On the Bond map Daniel Saylor (John Grabill's daughter married a Saylor) owned the Upper McCullar farm and S. Saylor lived on the lower farm. Not pinned down completely yet that John owned the upper McCullar farm when he died in 1844. (Handwritten on bottom of page: "Received 6/12/71 from Joseph H. Piatt 49 Crystal Drive Oakmont, Pa 15139. Located copy in the Frederick County Historical Library.") Martin Garber of Samuel by Deed WR-15-519, August 8, 1797 purchased 40 acres of land "Part of Ivy Church" from Richard Coale. This was an item in Samuel Carver's Will. August 8, 1797, by Deed WR 15-519, Peter Grabill's son Joseph bought this 40 acres of land from Martin Garber of Samuel. In 1805 Joseph (wife Barbara) sold this tract of land to his father Peter by Deed WR 27-554. This 40 acres is the "Part of Ivy Church" on Molasses Road where Reno and Mary Grabill now live. Joseph is found in the Tax List in West Bethlehem Township Washington County, Pennsylvania in 1806. This 40 acres is sold in 1811 to Joseph's brother John. In John's Will, GME 319, recorded February 13, 1844, he leaves this property (where David Garber now lives) to his widowed daughter Susannah Nail. Susannah almost immediately sells to her brother Abraham, who executed John's Will. This property then went to Samuel Grabill, Abraham's son, then to Abraham Webster Grabill, Samuel's son and finally to Reno Grabill, Abraham Webster's son. The 1800 Maryland Census lists in Libertytown District on consecutive lines, John Grebel, Peter Grebel, Joseph Grebel, Samuel Garber Jr., Christian Garber, Jacob Garber and Martin Garber of Samuel. This is on page 988. On page 986, same district, we find Martin Garber Jr. and Sr. The Grabels here are Peter Sr. and his sons John and Joseph. The Garbers on page 988 are sons of Samuel Garber Sr. who died in 1793, Will GM 2-463. Peter Grabill Jr. is not in the 1800 or 1810 Maryland Census. From Wampler material we find that Christina Wampler, daughter of Hans Peter and Mari Barbara Brenessee Sneither Wampler married Peter Grabill. Hans Peter's son John m. Magdalina Garber, daughter of Martin Garber Sr. John Wampler is next to Peter Grabill in the 1810 Maryland Census. He witnessed Peter's Will along with a Martin Garber (probably Martin of Samuel) but did not appear with Martin to confirm the Will after Peter's death. Continuing on Peter Jr., from a Mormon Index we located a John Peter Grabill b. 1768 who was married in Botetort County, Virginia to Christina Wampler. John Peter's father is listed as John Grabill. Obviously the birthdate is in error- Roy Wampler lists 1762- he was born before 1768 since the first born is listed as being born in 1780 in Frederick County, Maryland. John Peter Grabill being born in Virginia suggests that Peter and Mary came from Virginia with their family to Frederick County. That Peter Jr.'s and Christina's second child was born in Virginia and the other younger ones in North Carolina explains why Peter Jr. is not in the Maryland 1791, 1800 and 1810 Census. And why descendants of Peter Jr. refer to him as Peter Sr. in or from North Carolina. Other Grables we have become aware of: Captain Philip Grable from Baltimore. He was raised in York County, Pennsylvania and was buried there in October 1819. He died October 25, 1819 in Baltimore, Maryland. Peter Grable who joined the Revolution in 1776 in Hagerstown, Maryland. Peter Grable, Will RB1 318, October 25, 1807. He is buried in Emmitsburg, Maryland. Believe he is a late comer to Frederick County. There is a record of a daughter being married in 1794 in York County, Pennsylvania. Son John executed the Will- he undoubtedly stayed in the area. Other children were Polly Grable m. George Miller; Elizabeth Grable; and Catherine Grable m. Jacob Grevious, January 14, 1794. Peter Crepell, Will, December 4, 1790. His wife's name was Elizabeth. His children were Jacob m. Mary Link January 3, 1778 in Frederick Town, Margaret, Elizabeth, Will CME 2-266, 1836, and Rachel m. Richard Hardin. Richard Hardin executed Peter's Will. This Peter is probably the Peter who owned property in "Providence," Deed WR-4-98 June 7, 1783. Nicholas Grable, Will 39-805, 1774. His wife's name was Barbara. His children were John (Intestate John), Samuel who came to Fayett County, Pennsylvania; Elizabeth; Magdelina; Mary; Barbara m. George Craft; Ann and David. Some indicate that our Peter and Nicholas might have been brothers. John Grable, Descent book, March term, 1801. As above John is a son of Nicholas and Barbara Grable. He lived just east of Woodsboro which is just a short distance West of Johnsville, Maryland. He lived on "Spring Plains." Other of his tracts of land were "Stoney Ridge" and "Sandy Spring." His children were Moses m. Elizabeth Bixler April 12, 1799; Elizabeth m. David Sowers; Magdelena m. Jacob Sager; Eve m. Josua Compton; Barbara m Jacob Bixler; Joseph, Susannah, Judith; Sarah; and Mary. The last named four girls were under 21 in 1799. Joseph was just 21 when his father John died. Joseph Grable of "Shippays Neglect," 1749, near Hagerstown (what is now known as Halfway). We believe he is the Joseph Sr. of South Brownsville (Hiller) where a tablet marks the site of Grable's Block House, corner of Lewis and Woodward Streets. Tract "Clover Pasture" was patented to Joseph Grable Sr. June 28, 1788. Joseph Jr. lived alongside of Joseph Sr. He moved on to Kentucky in 1792. Karen Bowman suggests that Joseph Sr. may have had a son John. Marilyn Vander Veen and maybe others show that this John's father was Joseph. As a Christopher Grabill had property at one time in Fallowfield Township, along with John and Joseph Sr., we can assume they are related. Is Christopher a son of Joseph Sr. or is he a brother as Karen Bowman suggests? This John would be the John who married Salome Hickman. Our history mistakenly named this couple the parents of our Joseph Grable. Now on the Garbers. Our Joseph Grable of the 1811 Will married Barbara Garber about 1792. Contrary to tradition and Garber histories Barbara is a daughter of Samuel Carver, Will GM 2-463, January 14, 1793. There are too many Garbers in the late 1700's in Frederick County, Maryland to keep straight in correct generations and families. We have not looked at all of the deeds involved. Wills include Martin (Martin Jr.), Administrative Account H.S. No. 1 (1815-1816) 48, Christian Garber, Will RB 1-5, March 13, 1809, and Samuel Carver, Will GM 2-463, January 14, 1793 and Administrative Account February 20, 1798. Samuel Carver, Will GM 2-463, January 14, 1793 and Administrative Account February 20, 1798. By Deed P-110 Samuel Carver purchased 102 acres "Ivy Church" from Leonard Kitzmiller, June 13, 1772. At the time of his will Samuel was buying 100 acres of land from Richard Coale in "Ivy Church." This included the 40 acres "Part of Ivy Church" that our Joseph Grable bought from Martin Carver of Samuel in 1797. In listing information on Samuel's children we will use some data that appear correct taken from Garber material stating the family of Jacob Garber Sr. That Ann Grabill, Barbara Grabill and Catharine Pegler (Bigler) are listed in the Administrative Account of Samuel clinched it that Jacob Garber Sr. is fictitious. Children include: 1. Christian Carver m. Rebecca Eller. Joseph Eller's Deed H 8 657, April 21, 1794, Washington County, Maryland. 2. Samuel Carver d. 1814 m. a Hess. 3. Catharine Garber, 1758-1839 m. Israel Bigler 1758-1839. This couple was in West Bethlehem Township, Washington County, Pennsylvania early. Deed WR-25-577, John Garber (son of Martin Sr.) from Israel Bigler, May 8, 1804. 4. John Garber m. a Cole. 5. Anna Garber m. John Grabill, son of Peter Grable Sr. and brother of our Joseph Grable. 6. Jacob Carver (Rev.) 1767-1852 m. Mary Magdalena Eller, 1775-1849. In leaving for Pennsylvania, Jacob (wife Magdalena) sold property to Joseph Baker, Deed WR-21-541, October 21, 1801. Jacob appears in Tax Lists of West Bethlehem Township in 1802. Jacob and Magdelena are also named in the Eller Deed mentioned above. They are listed as early members of the Ten Mile Brethren Church, now near Marianna, Pennsylvania. 7. Barbara Garber, 1771-1851. She married our Joseph Grabill. 8. Jonathan Garber, 1774-1850 m. Elizabeth Hufford. They too were in West Bethlehem Township early. 9. Elizabeth, Samuel left her one walnut chest with two drawers under it. 10. Martin Garber. As above he sold property to our Joseph in 1797. With John Wampler he witnessed Peter Grable's Will and a Martin Garber witnessed John Grabills Will in 1729. Martin Garber Sr. We have not found a Martin Garber Sr. Will. We find a Martin Garber buying property, 105 acres "Limestone Rock" near Woodsboro and "Spring Plains," Deed K-803 Martin Garber from Jacob Danner, December 19, 1766. By Deed 0-503 he buys "Cedar Clifts," 290 acres from Henry Diggs August 17, 1771. "Cedar Clifts" lies north of "Ivy Church" between Johnsville and Union Bridge. Confirmation Deed WR-26-71 John Garber from Anna Garber and others, September 5, 1804 discloses most of what we know of Martin Garber Sr.'s family. This Deed makes clear and legal Deeds of 1802, July 29, Samuel Carver from Anna Garber and others, Christian Garber from Anna Garber and others, John Garber from Anna Garber and others and Martin Garber from Anna Garber and others. Anna in these deeds is Martin Sr.'s wife. Children include: 1. Martin Garber Jr. m. Hannah. 2. Samuel Garber m. Catharine. By Deed WR-23-227 Samuel buys property in "Ivy Church" from Martin Sr.'s heirs July 29, 1802. 3. Christian Garber m. Mary (Elizabeth). By Deed WR-23-229 Christian buys property in "Resurvey of Butler's Lot" from Martin Sr.'s heirs. 4. Mary Garber m. John Diehl. 5. Magdalena Garber m. John Wampler. 6. Henry Garber. 7. John Garber b. June 4, 1771 d. April 1848 (bachelor preacher). By Deed WR-26-71 he purchased "Cedar Clifts" from Martin Sr.'s heirs. Deed 23-232 also refers to this sale. He also owned "Small Beginnings." Will GME-3-315, May 8, 1848 disposes of his property. William Diehl executed the Will. Solomon Garber, Martin Garber and Abraham Diehl are listed as nephews. Older deceased sister, Mary Diehl, older deceased brother Martin Garber. Sister Magdelena Wampler and deceased brothers Samuel and Henry are also mentioned. Martin Garber Jr. Administrative Account H.S. No. 1 (1815-1816) 48. Martin Jr. was born in 1768 and died March 21, 1814. As above, his wife's name was Hannah. Children include: 1. Solomon b. October 10, 1791; d. January 16, 1870; m. Mary b. September 22, 1798; d. February 1852. 2. Isaac 3. Mary 4. John 5. Juliann 6. Hannah 7. Martin Jr. 8. Abraham 9. Lydia 10. Charles Christian Garber, Will RB 1-5, March 13, 1809, Administrative Account March 12, 1816. Christian is a son of Martin Garber Sr. and Anna. He died before March 13, 1809. Martin Garber brother of Christian executed the Will with John Stoner. Witness were Jonathan Wampler and Joseph Baker. Children include: 1. Jonathan Garber 2. Magdalena Garber m. Henry Fox 3. Ann Garber m. Adam Fox 4. Elizabeth Garber m. William Stoner 5. Barbara Garber m. Thomas Donson 6. Rebecca m. David Dunston September 3, 1811. Their daughter Elizabeth in 1828 m. Jacob Piatt in Waynesburg, Pennsylvania. 7. Daniel Garber 8. Hannah b. 1799 Administrative Account was not reported until Hannah became of age at 16. Married Jacob Saylor very young. Thus you see some of the different Garber names that must be kept separate. Geographically Samuel and his family were close to our Grables as were Henry Eller and John Wampler, all in or very close to "Ivy Church." Martin Garber Sr. and his family were directly north of the Beaver Dam Creek Brethren Church (German Baptist) in "Cedar Clifts" still on Beaver Dam Creek. We have said nothing of John Garber. We believe there was a John Garber in the older generation probably a brother of Samuel and Martin Sr. Henry Eller, a probable brother of George Michael Eller, left property to the following children. Joseph Eller, m. Elizabeth Grabill; Henry Eller Jr. m. Francey Grabill; Jacob Eller m. Margareth; Ester Eller; Daniel Eller m. Hannah; Sarah Eller; Magdelina Eller m. Jacob Garber; Elizabeth m. Christian Herter; Rebecca m. Christian Garber of Samuel; Maria Eller; Salome Eller m. Henry Shultz; and Peter Eller. This Peter Eller came to West Bethlehem Township, Washington County, Pennsylvania early as did Joseph Grable, Jacob Garber, Catherine Garber Bigler, Jonathon Garber and Samuel Garber. The Henry Eller family is disclosed in Deed H. B. 657, April 21, 1794, Washington County, Maryland in which Joseph Eller is buying out his brothers and sisters. The Garber men signed in German script; the women made marks. By Deed P-128 June 13, 1772 Frederick County Maryland Henry Eller bought 102 acres of "Ivy Church" from Leonard Kitzmiller for one hundred and seventy seven pounds. Peter Grabel date and place of birth unknown. Died immediately before March 11, 1811 at Johnsville, Frederick County, Maryland. Burial site unknown but could be on upper McCullar farm, Molasses Road, Johnsville. m. Mary ____. Her place and date of birth are unknown. Died before 1815 when the Administrative Account of Peter's Will was recorded. A deed M 445 shows he was in Frederick County, August 21, 1769. Children: (six) 1. Saree. May have married Adam Smith, February 17, 1811. She was paid 15 pounds yearly to care for her mother after her father's death. Was not mentioned in the Administrative Account. 2. Peter b. 1762 in Virginia; d. May 11, 1848, Jackson, Ohio; m. Christina Wampler dau Hans Peter and Anna Breneness Wampler in Botetort County, Virginia. Christina b. 1760 or 1761 in Virginia (?); d. October 10, 1844; buried with Peter in Callaghan Cemetery, Madison, Jackson, Ohio. Children: (10) 1. John Grabill b. February 1. 1780 Frederick County, Maryland; d. October 30, 1866; m. Rachel Duncan 1805. 2. Peter Grabill b. December 1, 1783 Virginia; d. July 15, 1869; m. Mary Buckitt 1807. 3. Michael Grabill b. May 14, 1787 North Carolina; d. September 24, 1856; m. Polly Stoker 1811. 4. Nancy Grabill b. June 9, 1789 North Carolina; d. unknown; m. William Hodrin. 5. David Grabill b. April 1791 North Carolina; d. April 19, 1874; m. Barbara Buckitt. 6. Barbara Grabill b. 1792 North Carolina; d. October 3, 1872; m. 1814 David Stoker. 7. Christina Grabill b. 1794 North Carolina; m. James Lewis. 8. Joseph Grabill b. 1796 North Carolina. 9. Henry Grabill b. 1798 North Carolina; m. Celia Henson. 10. Elizabeth Grabill b. 1802 North Carolina. 3. John Grabill b. March 13, 1758; d. February 13, 1844 Johnsville, Maryland; buried on upper McCullar farm, Molasses Road, Johnsville; m. Ann Garber dau of Samuel; Ann's grave may be beside John but is unmarked if it is. The William's History of Frederick County states that John is an immigrant. Children: (four) 1. Abraham Grabill b. March 21, 1801 Beaver Dam Creek, Frederick County, Maryland; d. December 15, 1877, buried on Dotterer farm. First wife Hannah Myers, second Rebecca Sarah Ann. Hannah born December 3, 1802; d. August 3, 1837. Rebecca Sarah Ann buried with Abraham on Dotterer farm. Children: (five) 1. John M. Grabill 2. Samuel Grabill b. December 3, 1827; d. July 7, 1904 Johnsville, Maryland; buried in Methodist Church Cemetery, Johnsville; m. Abbie Repp; b. February 14, 1829 dau. Henry and Mary Repp. Abbie buried with Samuel. Children: (five) 1. John Davis Grabill b. August 28, 1845 Johnsville, Maryland; m. Mary Route. 2. Abraham Webster Grable b. January 3, 1860; m. Amanda Garber dau. Abraham and Margaret Haugh Garber 1886. Amanda b. September 19, 1862; d. November 13, 1907. Both buried Beaver Dam Creek Cemetery. Bought Grabill homestead in 1901 from his father Samuel. He was to care for his father Samuel. Second wife Utic Idella Beard Grabill. Children: (eight) 1. Arron Monroe Grabill b. August 20, 1884 Johnsville, Maryland; m. Lennie Johnson. 2. Annie Belle Grabill b. October 6, 1887. 3. Nora Margaret b. November 5, 1889; d. February 9, 1921. 4. Edna Grabill b. April 22, 1886. 5. Mary Elizabeth b. August 22, 1893. 6. Frank Hunter Grabill b. July 20, 1895; m. Francis Boone. They live in Johnsville. 7. Verno Russel Grabill, b. April 17, 1913. He lives in Walkerville, Maryland. 8. Reno Wesley b. June 29, 1918; m. Mary ___. A son Robert and his wife Mary with a daughter live on Molasses Road adjacent to Reno and Mary. 3. Warren Sidwell Grabill b. October 12, 1862. 4. Albert Grabill- died young. 5. Ann Elizabeth b. January 19, 1861- died young. 3. Susan Elizabeth Grabill 4. Ann Barbara Grabill 5. Reuben S. Grabill m. Lavina Bellison. 2. Susanna Grabill m. ___ Nail, widow in 1829. 3. Christina Grabill m. Jacob Saylor. 4. Magdelina Grabill b. 1798; d. 1882 m. H. Lee Stoner. 4. Elizabeth m. Joseph Eller, son of Henry Eller. Joseph by Deed April 26, 1794 purchased two tracts of land "Wallings Luck" and "Part of Adventure" from his brothers and sisters. This in Washington County, Maryland just Southeast of Hagerstown. 5. Francey m. Henry Eller Jr. 6. Joseph b. about 1770, probably Frederick County, Maryland; m. Barbara Garber daughter of Samuel Garber about 1792, Frederick County, Maryland, died 1844 West Bethlehem Township, Washington County, Pennsylvania. Joseph by Deed WR 15 519, 1797 purchased 40 acres "Part of Ivy Church" from Martin Garber of Samuel. In 1805 Joseph and Barbara sold this property to Joseph's father Peter. In 1806 Joseph is listed in Tax Lists, West Bethlehem Township, Washington County, Pennsylvania. Earliest maps show Joseph's 127 acre farm we know as the Grable homestead. Early records of the Ten Miles Church of the Brethren show Joseph as a member. This is the Joseph of page 8 Grable History..." There is much research left to be done in Frederick County, Maryland. Thanks for helping steer us straight to some extent goes to Karen Bowman and Donna Markham Kazala, both descendants of John and Salome Hickman Grable; J. N. Edgar; Richard Hathaway, a descendent of Samuel Grable of Fayette County, Pennsylvania; Rev. Newton Poling; Jay Grabeal a descendent of Peter Grabill Jr.; John Wampler, and others. Of course, there are lots of errors and omissions in this. Please read and correct material you are familiar with. Thanks!!! Joseph H. Piatt, 49 Crystal Drive, Oakmont, PA 15139, 412 828 4684 (handwritten "June 19(4 or 7)1")" 10. FHL book 975.5763 H2h "Annals of Tazewell County, Virginia, from 1800 to 1922," by John Newton Harman, Sr., Member Virginia Historical Society (Richmond, 1922[updated 1975]), pp. 428-31, "Graybeal-Greear Families"; this article provides the descendancy of the two brothers Peter and David Graybill, grandsons of this individual: "The Graybeal family is of Dutch descent. The first history we have of them gives them located in Bottetourt County, Virginia. Two brothers, Peter and David, married sisters by the name of Burkett. They all talked and read in their native tongue, and spelled the name "Graybill". One of these brothers immigrated to Ash County, N. C., late in the 17th century, and located near Jefferson in Ash County. At this time they changed their name to spell "Graybeal," instead of "Graybill" hence the difference in the way the name is now being spelled..." 11. FHL book 975.2 D2se v.1 "Monocacy and Catoctin. Some Early Settlers of Frederick and Carroll Counties, MD and Adams County, PA also Descendants 1725-1985," vol. 1, by C.E. Schildknecht. Even though this book does not deal directly with our Graybill branch, it does provide some sources that might useful: "Graybill (Kraebuehl, etc.) families, Annabaptis from Canton Zurich (Genealogy by S.L. Kraybill and N.L. Zimmerman, Baltimore, 1982). Michel Grebuehl [of Frederick, MD] (Graybill, Drehbiel, etc.) emig. from Weierhof, Swiss Mennonite center of North Palatinate ("PA Folklife," Winter 1972 and Summer 1977); others from near Mannheim (BE), Canton Berne (Leo Schelbert and Sandra Luebking, "PA Folklife," summer 1977.)" | Graybill, "Old" Peter (I1998)
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| 4778 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The farm "Dybdal" belongs to the large manor estate "Irup" (G88). In Viborg library are only two estate books which start in 1756 and are therefore unuseful. BIRTH: 1. Calculated from age at time of death. BURIAL: 1. Viborg, Denmark Regional Archives; Skyum parish records; microfiche C116.1 plate 1 page ?; age given as 52 yrs and 5 months at time of death. 2. Per Joyce Cupit: "Skyum Kirkebog 1727: 17 Maju begravet Laurits Christensen af Dybdall og var 52 år og Måneder gammel." SOURCES_MISC: 1. Joyce Cupit's website | Christensen Dybdal, Lauridtz (I1701)
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| 4779 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The first name of Edmund and Edward seems to have been interchanged for this person. The marriage record, burial record, and tax record for 1664 (Boxley) shows Edmund. The births of his children show Edward or Edvardi. Apparently from the context of the records, they are all for the same individual. 2. Website accessed 9 may 2017: http://www.the-abbotts-of-canterbury.com/brochures/kent_1664L_transcript.pdf Citation Page 131. KENT HEARTH TAX ASSESSMENT LADY DAY 1664 CKS: Q/RTh Transcribed and computerised by Duncan Harrington Notes: Edmund Kidney is the only Kidney shown in Boxley. His shows as "non-chargeable" with "1" unit. MARRIAGE: 1. Findmypast website accessed 9 May 2017 shows a "Kent Marriage Transcription" for "Edmund Kidney and Thomasin Coveney, m. Maidstone 13 Mar 1656, abode Boxley." A second version of the same record gives parent to "Thomazin" Coveney as "Ann of West Maling - widow" and indicates both groom and bride reside in Boxley. | Kidney, Edmund or Edward (I5477)
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| 4780 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following appears to be for the son of Adrian. FHL film 946271 "The Charles R. Hutchinson Collection," Family Records (series 4, Book F, "Reccords in the Office of the Secretary of State at Trenton, N.J.; Bonds for Licenses of Marriage, compilation p. 2, entry 1741 [The compiler notes that between the years 1727 to 1791, the law required the filing of a bond to assure that there was no lawful impediment to potential marriage such as consanguinity, another marriage, etc. He notes that these bonds were found in a pile with many lost but many did survive and are now bound. The compiler includes a select few in his compilation]. The following is from the index: "Longstreet, Christoffell, Monmouth, & Nellie Schenck, Monmouth, Nov. 28, 1753." 2. The book, “A history of the Camfield family: with special emphasis on the descendants of John Freeman Camfield and Margaret Singleton Camfield…,” by Ernest Ross Camfield (Privately printed; 1999), “THE FAMILY OF LONGSTREET AND ITS TIES WITH THE CAMFIELD'S,” pp. 244-51: “Stoffel Dircksen Langestraet Born: about 1666 in probably New Utrecht, New Netherlands (America) Married: Moica Lanen Van Pelt in 1695, she was the daughter of Gysbrecht Tuysz Lanen Van Pelt of New Utrecht, in New Netherlands. He died about 1 March 1741 in Monmouth County, New Jersey.... Stoffel Langestraet was a Deacon of the Flatlands Church in 1698. Not long after this he, his brother Adrian, and his father moved across to New Jersey. There he settled in the Neversink Hills, (some references say at Deal) which was in Monmouth County, where his descendants abound to this day..." 3. The book “This old Monmouth of ours: history, tradition, biography, genealogy, and other anecdotes related to Monmouth County, New Jersey,” by William S. Hornor (Cottonport, Louisiana: Polyanthos, 1974) “The Longstreet (Langstraat Family),” pp. 127-28: “The Longstreet Family. This substantial family springs from THEOPHILUS LANGSTRAAT (1), of Holland, through a son, Dirck, (2), who came to America in 1657. The Anglicised form of the name sufficiently indicates its original meaning and derivation. DIRCK STOFFELSE LANGSTRAAT (2), son of Theophilus (or Stoffel) (1), came to America in 1657, eventually settling in Shrewsbury Township. (It may be noted here that among the Dutch the syllables, s, se, pe, and sometimes, te were used to indicate the paternity of the individuals to whom they were assigned, apparently as middle-names. Often the original last names, were dropped and only the "middle-name" retained. Thus we have the families of Hendricks, Laen, Giberson, and Tysen, all proceeding from an original (probably VanPelt), through several brothers who were respectively christened Hendrick, Laen, Gilbert, and Matthias, or Tice.) Dirck Longstreet married first, Catherine VanSiddock, and, secondly, Johannah Havens, widow of Johannis Holshart. His children were: Richard (3), of Shrewsbury; Adrien (or Aaron,) (4); Theophilus (or Stoffle), (5); Samuel (6); and, Classje (7) ADRIEN, or AARON. (4), son of Dirck (2), was born in 1677 and died in 1728. He was a cordwainer, and lived in Freehold Township. He married, in 1707, Christina (or Stanchke) Janse. Their children were: John (8); Derrick (9); Stoffle (10); Katherine (11); Nelly (12); Winifred (13); Maria (14); Arinche (15), and, one other child (16), perhaps Christopher, who died in 1758 leaving children, Court (91), and Christine (92), both under age at the death of their father. Of these last Christine is said to have married John Saunders, from whom she was divorced by Legislative Enactment in 1780. THEOPHILIS (OR STOFFLE) (5), son of Dirck (2), was born in Flatlands, Long Island, and died on his farm on the Manasquan River, in New Jersey, about 1741. He married Moyka, daughter of Gilbert Lane. She died about 1753. Moyka is, I think, the equivalent of the English Mercy. Their children were: Richard (17), of Squan, whose children are said to have been Derrick (42), born September 1745, and Anne (43), born June 1, 1748; Gilbert (18); Aury (19); Stoffel (20); Yonica (21); Catherine (22), who is supposed to have married William Chamberlain Jr.; Mary or Maria, (23), who married William, son of Daniel and Catherine Hendrickson; Sarah (24); Moika (25), who married and had children: and, Anne (26). GILBERT LONGSTREET (18), son of Stoffel (5), lived at Squan, where he died in 1756 or 1758. His wife is supposed to have been Rachel, daughter of Garret and Nelly (Voorhees) Schenck, who married, secondly, Jacobus VanDorn. Their children were: Rachel (44), who died in 1765, having married William VanDorn, who married secondly, Mary Hunt; Garret (45), of Squan; Gilbert (46); Moyca (47); Nely (48); Jane, or Ouicha (49), married John Lake; and, Elizabeth (50). AURY (OR AARON) LONGSTREET (19), son of Stoffle (5), was of Rocky Hill, near Princeton. One authority says that he married Catherine, daughter of Samuel Osborne, of Squan, who died before 1759. Another, makes her to have married John Longstreet. The name of his wife needs confirmation, as do those of his children, which have been given as: Moyka (51); Aaron (51-1/2); Richard (51-1/2); and, Lydia (52), bp. 6-10-1759. STOFFLE LONGSTREET (20), son of Stoffle (5), was baptised 12-25-1713, and died 1784. He is said to have married Abagail, daughter of Thomas and Patience Woolley, who was born 3-17-1717, and to have been father of at least one child, Samuel, (41-1/2), who died 12-21-1829, at the age of 94.” 4. The book “Genealogy of the Family of Longstreet with Its Related Families…,” by Edward Mayes (Tuttle Antiquarian Books, Inc., Rutland, VT; 1989?), pp. D16-D17: “DIRCK STOFFELS LANGESTRAET immigrated in 1657, twelve years after the appointment of Stuyvesant as Director of the province, two years after the erection of the church at Flatbush, and seven years before the seizure of the province by Nicholls. He settled at Flatlands (Amersfoort); and this fact, since the village was of less consequence than either Flatbush (only three miles may) or Brooklyn, and was named for a town in Utrecht, from which those who inhabited and named it presumably came, renders it probable that Langestraets were from Utrecht. However that may be, Dirck (or Richard, in the English) was in 1677, a member of the Flatlands church, sitting under the ministry of the Rev. Mr. Zuuren. He may have been for years before that an active member of the church, and probably was; for it must be remembered that the lists in the Flatbush record begin with the year 1677. In 1687, in September, thirteen years after the first cession of the province to England, there was a general administration of an oath of allegiance to the British Crown to all of the Dutch people; and with the others, Dirck took that oath at Flatlands. He appears again on an assessment roll of that village for the year 1693, and on a census roll of 1698. After this his name occurs no more on the Long Island records and it is thought that he moved to Monmouth county, New Jersey. In his younger manhood, but after his arrival in this province, he married CATHARINA VAN LIEUWEN; afterward, in his older age, some time before, but not far from, February 13, 1690, he married Johanna Havens, widow of Johannis Holsaert. An ante-nuptial agreement made with this second wife is still to be found in the town records of Gravesend; and in it reference is made to his son Stoffel Dircksen. At an early period, date now unknown, he had bought land at Shrewsbury in New Jersey, which he devised by his will to his son Richard. By his first wife Catherina, he had issue as follows: (1) Stoffel Dircksen, of whom hereafter. (2) Claasje Dircksen, born about 1672 and who married Abraham Lott, of Jamaica. (3) Adrian, baptised September 16, 1677. (Adrian; bapt. Sept. 16, 1677; married Christina Janse 1707. On asst. roll of Flatlands 1693, and census of 1698; owned land in Gravesend; moved to Freehold, N. J., and deacon there 1721; died in 1728; wife died after 1726. Issue (all bapt. at Marlboro): 1, Christine, or Katherine, bp. Nov. 27, 1709, mar. Aug. 24, 1741. Wm. Williamson of the Raritan; 2, Jan. bp. Jan. 13, 1712, mar. Dec. 17, 1746 Anije Cowenhoven; 3. Dirck, of Princeton, born about 1713, mar. about 1749, Margaret Shenck, widow of Wm. Cowenhoven; 4, Nellie, born about 1715; 5, Winnifred, born about 1718; 7, Maria, born about 1721, mar. Dec. 5, 1742, Dirck Sutphen; 8, Arianche, born about 1723; Stoffel, born about 1728, mar. Nov. 28, 1753, Nellie Shenck.) (4) Richard, born about 1680. (5) A daughter (supposed), who married Samuel Osborne. (6) Samuel (supposed) married Barbara Antonides.” 5. The book “Genealogy of the Family of Longstreet with Its Related Families…,” by Edward Mayes (Tuttle Antiquarian Books, Inc., Rutland, VT; 1989?), pp. D17-D21: “STOFFEL DIRCKSEN LANGESTRAET was born about 1666. About 1695 he married MOICA, (called by way of pet name MAYKE or Maicken) LANEN VAN PELT, daughter of Gysbrecht Tuysz Lanen Van Pelt, of New Utrecht. He was a deacon of the Flatlands church in the year 1698. Not long after this he, his brother Adrian, and probably his father moved across to New Jersey. There he settled on the Neversink Hills (some accounts say at Deal) in Monmouth County, where his descendants abound to this day..." 6. The book “Register in Alphabetical Order, of the early settlers of Kings County, Long Island, N. Y.; from its first settlement by Europeans to 1700; with contributions to their biographies and genealogies,” by Teunis G. Bergen (New York: S.W. Green's Son, 1881), pp. 181-82: “Langestraat, Adriaen, bp. Sept. 16, 1677; d. 1728; m. Christina Janse. On ass. roll of Flds of 1693 and cen. of 1698; also owned land in Gd; deacon of Freehold R. D. ch. in 1721, to which place he had removed. In 1723, an Adriaen Langestraet and Christina Janse his w., mem. of Freehold R. D. ch. Issue, all bp. at Marlboro: Christine or Katharine, bp. Nov. 27, 1709, m. Aug. 24, 1741, Wm Williamsen of the Raritan; Jan, bp. Jan. 13, 1712, m. Dec. 17, 1746, Antje Cowenhoven; Dirck of Princeton, b. about 1713, m. about 1749 Margaret Schenck wid. of Wm Cowenhoven; Nelly, b. about 1715; Winnifred, b. about 1718; Maria, b. about 1721, m. Dec. 5, 1742, Dirck Sutphen; Arianche, b. about 1723; and Stoffel, b. about 1726, m. Nov. 28, 1753, Nelly Schenck, as per Rev. G. C. Schenck. Derick Stoffelsz, emigrated in 1657, m. 1st Catharina Van Lieuwen; m. 2d, prior to Feb. 13, 1690, Johanna Havens wid. of Johannis Holsaert. Mem. of Flds D. ch. in 1677, took the oath of allegiance there in 1687; on ass. roll of said town of 1693 and cen. of 1698. In ante-nuptial agreement with his 2d w. on the Gd rec. of Feb. 13, 1690, reference is made to his s. Stoffel Dircksen. At an early period, as per Rev. G. C. Schenck, he bought land at Shrewsbury, N. J., which he devised by will to his s. Richard. Issue: - Stoffel Dircksen; Claasje Dircksen, b. about 1672, m. Abraham Lott of Ja; Adrian, bp. Sept. 16, 1677; Richard of Shrewsbury, b. about 1680; (sup.) Johannis; and Samuel, (sup.) m. Barbara Antonides. Signed his name “Dirck Stoffels." (Sup.) Jan or Johannis Dircksen, b. 1629. Appointed Apl. 28, 1666, by the mag. of Flh one of the guardians of Aernout Reynders s. of Reyndert Arensen and Annetien Hermans, said Annetien being dec. and said Aernout having married Annetien Aukens, as per p. 61 of Lib. D of Flh rec. Allowed to follow the occupation of carman by the court in N. A. in 1674, as per p. 494 of Valentine's Manual of 1855. June 8, 1690, he made an affidavit relating to the troubles in N. Y. during Gov. Leisler's administration, as per p. 741 of Vol. III. of Doc. of Col. His. Stoffel Dircksen of Flds and N. J., m. Mayke Laanen dau. of Gysbrecht Tuysz Lanen Van Pelt of N. U. Deacon of Flds D. ch. in 1698. Removed to the Neversinks in Monmouth Co., N. J., where his descendants abound. In his will, da. Dec. 1, 1739, pro. Mar. 1, 1741, he calls himself Theophilus, an improper change for Stoffel or Christopher. The will of Mayke his w. is da. Apl. 8, 1752, and pro. Mar. 13, 1753. These wills name as their children, Jonica, Catharine, Mary, Sarah, Maria, Ann, and Gisbert. Issue: - Dirck, bp. Apl. 25, 1696, in Bro, m. Jane or Jonica, probably d. at date of his father's will; Jonica or Jane; Catharine, (sup.) m. Jan Sutphen of N. J.; Mary or Maria, bp. May 6, 1702, m. 1st Wm. Hendricksen of N. J., m. 2d (sup.) Dirck Sutphen; Sarah, b. about 1705; Gisbert, b. about 1707, m. Rachel Schenck, d. 1758; Aurie, bp. Nov. 6, 1710, m. May 6, 1754, Lydia Hull; Stoffel, bp. Dec. 25, 1713, resided at Upper Freehold, m. Dec. 16, 1743, Abagail Wooley, d. 1784; Moica, bp. Mar. 6, 1716, m. (sup.) Johannes Leek; and Ann, b. about 1718. Signed his name “Stoffel Langstrat." Abbreviations: Bro. = Brooklyn; Flds = Flatlands; N.U. = New Utrecht; D. ch = Dutch Church; N.A. = New Amsterdam; cen = census; Gd = Gravesend; Flh = Flatbush." 7. “A Longstreet Family History,” by Rupert James Longstreet (DeLand, Fla., 1960), available on FHL film 2056005 item 3 or online at “OUR IMMIGRANT ANCESTOR. DIRCK STOFFELSE. The first record of the presence in America of our immigrant ancestor was made on June 14, 1663, when a list of "equipment and munitions of war" possessed by the Dutch settlers at Ameersfoort (Brooklyn) revealed that DIRCK STOFFELSEN was responsible for one pound of powder valued at one florin. (Documents Relating to the Colonial History of N.Y., II, 463) In September, 1687, there was a "roll of those who have taken the oath of allegiance in Kings County in the Province of New York ... in the 3rd year of His Maj Reigne", and in this roll, "off fflackland" we find entered: DIRCK STOFFELSE - 30 Jeare STOFFEL DIRCKSEN - native Intrepreted, this means that Dirck had lived in the colony for 30 years (which sets the date of his arrival as 1657) and that his son Stoffel was born in the colony. (Documentary History of New York, I, 431) The following ante-nuptial agreement found in the Gravesend Town Records, Bk 3 p. 114, gives us more information about Dirck: “To all Christian people to whom this present writing shall come: Know ye thatt I Dirck Stoffelsen living att Ameersfoort in Kings County upon Long Island in ye province of New York weduwaer of Catherine van Lewen deceased, being now remarried with Johanna havens widdow of Johannis holsard deceased my present wife: Therefore know ye thatt I Dirck Stoffelsen above sd being in perfect memorie make hereby my present loving wyf Johanna haavens in my last will and testament my sole joynty heir and executrix of all my whole estate both moveable and unmoveable onely excepted my eldest son Stoffel direcksen shale injoye a lumm for weavings, so as ye lumm comes from ye workman: in the time of a yeare from ye date here of above his tother brother and sister butt all my whole estate as above sd is left unto my loving wyf Johanna haavens: she to be my joynty heir and executrix duering her lifetime: without any molestation or disturbance by my children, or by thier procurement, att any time or times whatsoever hereafter; remarrion or nott remarrien, my loving wyf above shall remain my joynty heire and executrix. And therefore I Johanna havens widdow of Johannis holsard deceased, living in ye same towne and countie and province above specified, being now remarried with Dirck Stoffelsen my present husband I Johanna above sd being in perfect memorie, doe hereby as my last will and testament, make my present loving husband my sole and joynty heir and executor of all my estate moveable and unmoveable none excepted and if god should be pleased to give us children together in our marriage, them children then with the rest of our fore children: are to have equal portion together after our decease butt ye surviving of us either male or female is to possess both whole estates of both sides without molestation or disturbance of both parties theire children or anyone else of theire procurement att any time or times whatsoever hereafter: this is our will so to do being in perfect memorie, and in confirmation both parties have hereunto sett our hands this 18 of februa 1690/1. DIRCK STOFFELS JOHANNA HAVENS Subscribed and Acknowledged in the presence of us: ARSTEN JANSEN BARENT YUIANSEN JOHN EMANS: Clerke” We do not know the date of death of Dirck's first wife Catherine, but she was with him as witness to a baptism on 11-16-1684 (Documentary History of New York, 1898). As we see above, Dirck was remarried by Feb. 18, 1690/1. In 1698, there was a census of Flatland, Long Island, in which was listed the then family of Dirck Langstraat, consisting of "Men 1 Wo 1 Chil 3" (Kings County, New York, Genealogical Club Collections, III, 88). On 4-25-1696, Dirch is recorded with his second wife Johanna Havens at the Reformed Dutch Church in Brooklyn, witnessing the baptism of grandsons Jan and Dirck (History of Middlesex County, NJ, by Wall and Pickersgill I,79) The last known record of this family in Long Island is the following: (New York Genealogical and Biographical Record, 54:180) “Sept. 10, 1698: Antony Warshaer of Flatlands and Maritje his wife deed Stoffel Langstraat, Adrian Langstraat, Johannes Holsaer, Classje Lake and Cretje Williamse, late of Kings County, house, orchard, etc. in Flatlands bounded by property of John Vandyckhuys and Derick Amertman. The parties of the second part paying full value to Antony Holsaer, Benjamein Holsaer, Dirick Langstraat and Marytntje Langstraat when they are of age or marry the ninth part of said property. Signed by Antony alone. Wit by Henry Filkin and Ferdinand Vansycklyn, Jr. Ack. Sept. 15, Rec'd Sept. 16, 1698 before and by Henry Filkin, Reg. We know from the ante-nuptial agreement that Dirck had three children by his first wife Catherine, viz. eldest son Stoffel and a brother and a sister. In the Warshaer deed we learn the name of the brother, i.e. Arian (Adrian, Aaron). We learn the name of the sister, Classje, from (M-11). Thus Dirck's first three children, by Catherine, were: Stoffel, Adrian and Classje. The Warshaer deed names two more as minors in 1698, and therefore of the second marriage, i.e. Dirick and Maryntje. This list of five does not wholly agree with the Flatlands census of 1698. Who the third child of that list may have been remains undetermined. The list of five is also in disagreement with (Register of Early Settlers in Kings County, Long Island, New York, By T.G. Bergen), where Bergen states that the children of Dirck were: Stoffel, Classje, Adrian, Richard of Shrewsbury, Johannis (sup), and Samuel (sup). Berger may have counted Johannis Holsard of the Warshaer deed as a Longstreet, in error. Of his "Samuel", there is no present explanation. Nor do we know why Bergen credited "Richard of Shrewsbury" to a place as a son of the Immigrant Dirck, for the Warshaer deed again lists "Dirick" as a minor in 1698, and in any case born after 1690, as a son of Dirck and Johanna. In the light of such data as we now have, it seems likely that this "Richard" is a grandson of Dirck by his son Stoffel, and the author of will #2659M (see later); that is, he is the Dirick b. 1696 to Stoffel and Mayke Lanen. Therefore we shall proceed to develop his family history on the assumption that the immigrant ancestor founded his line upon the two elder sons, viz. Stoffel and Adrian (Aaron). Of his third son, by Johanna, we have no further data. DIRCK STOFFELSE [Children:] -Stoffel Dircksen b. ca. 1666 -Classje Dircksen b. ca. 1672 -Adrian (Aaron) bp. 9-16-1677 (Omitting Dirck's two children by his second marriage - Dirick and Maryntje - for neither of whom we have any record of issue.)” 8. “A Longstreet Family History,” by Rupert James Longstreet (DeLand, Fla., 1960), available on FHL film 2056005 item 3 or online at “ADRIAN (AARON) LANGESTRAET[1], bp. 9-16-1677, d. 1728, m. Christine Janse.[2] states that he was "on the assessment roll of Flatlands, L.I. in the census of 1698; deacon of the Freehold, New Jersey Dutch Reformed Church, 1721, to which place he had removed. Issue all baptized in Marlboro, NJ" i.e. in the Dutch Reformed Church of the Navesink, serving the area of Freehold, Middleton, Holmdel, Marlboro, etc., the "Old Brick Church". Adrian's will (#397M) dated 3-3-1727, refers to his wife Styntje (Christina). Ellis [3] gives the date of marriage as 1707. The will is signed "Aaron". The descendants who contributed data to Lee [4] reported that Adrian was a cordswainer and had a farm near Holmdel (Freehold) which is doubtless the present "Longstreet Farm", long held by members of the family but now in other hands. Of the children mentioned in the will, only four are recorded as baptized at Marlboro (these are marked with an asterisk (*) below.) -Katrinke bp. 11-27-1709* -Jan bp. 1-13-1711* -Dirck b. ca. 1713 (L-20) -Nelly b. ca. 1715 (L-20) -Winifred b. ca. 1718 (L-20) -Maria b. ca. 1721 (L-20) -Arianche bp. 10-3-1723* -Stophel bp. 4-10-1726* -An unborn child mentioned in the will (1727)” Sources: 1. Daniel Perrine and His Descendants, by H.D. Perrine. 2. Register of Early Settlers in Kings County, Long Island, New York, By T.G. Bergen. 3. History of Monmouth County, NJ, by Ellis. 4. Genealogical and Memorial History of Mercer County, NJ, by F.B. Lee.” | Langestraet, Adrian Dircksen (I5604)
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| 4781 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following are comments from a conversation that occurred 24 Jul 2015-25 Jul 2015 between Devon Dahl A. He comments on the origins of George Michael Eller as follows: "Your question asking "proof" as to where the Ellers came from, is like asking me to draw you a map to the "spring" from which the waters of eternal life flows! It hasn't been revealed to me yet! As Vice President, with specific responsibility for research, I prepared a 5 days Eller Family Association Research Retreat on June 29 to July 3 2002 at the Family History Center in Salt Lake. We had 36 people from all over the nation -- Alaska to Georgia who came. We spent 3 days going through German microfilm going from city to city which [FHL-based professional German researchers] Trudy Schenk and Marian Wolfert believed from the name George or Georg Michael Eller. I had a cousin from Pennsylvania who speaks and reads German fluently, as well as my nephew who went on his mission in Germany and also reads and writes fluently. Many of us had done considerable research in German. I had them write down ANY name that was Eller, with all their possible derivatives -- i.e. Ehler, Eiler, Ellar, etc which included their birthplace, marriage, death, burial etc. When I got home I went through each sheet (a stack 3 inches thick) which our researchers compiled, and found none that had the right parameters to be our George Michael Eller. I ... couldn't link them together with any of our other Eller families. I had one cousin who lived in Salt Lake, and was a seasoned researcher. He went to the FHL for six months every week, and with help of professional genealogists in the International Section -- tried to "bust through" this block wall to no avail. ... I kept watching as people would write articles on how they had found the real George Michael Eller -- and mostly laughed at their ignorance. I wrote every descendant who submitted to the Ancestral File including Henry B. Eyring -- on my family lines. Many had theories which I'd previously proven didn't hold water -- but nobody could document with proof their theories. One cousin in the Eller Family Association said "he had proof" that his findings were substantiated -- when I asked for proof, he replied that he got it from Ancestral File! I reached a conclusion that unless God revealed it to me ... or had a newspaper from that period delivered to my doorstep in the middle of the night by an angel, that I wasn't going to find any "proof". B. In a subsequent separate email from Devon, he seems to offer a differing version of George Michael Eller's ancestry which is inconsistent to his remarks above: "My latest input places George Michael Eller -- not born in Baden, Baden-Wurttemberg -- but born in 1722 in Rowan County, North Carolina. He was married about 1745 to Anna Marie Schneider who was born in 1725 in Rowan County (now Ashe County) North Carolina. George Michael died in Frederick, Frederick, Maryland. I have taken photo's of all Rowan, Ashe county early records with my digital camera, and his will seems to indicate that he had at least one other wife -- because he offered Ann Marie his pewter plate and other tableware of she would take care of the older children after his death. If these older children were George and Anna Marie's children, why wouldn't the mother be willing to care for them without pay. Haven't found a better answer. Some say he was first married to a Salome -- but I can find nothing on her. His father was George Eller born in Kaltenbrunn, Underfranken, Bayern, Bavaria (later absorbed into Germany) and married to Margaretha Huels. George Eller's father was Johann Adam Valentine Eller born 1636 in Konighburg, East Prussia, Thuringia, Bavaria -- and dying in Kaltenbrunn, Unterfranken, Bavaria (which became part of West Germany). He was married to Margaret Gerbert born 1648 from Planer, Schmelzthal, Bohemen, Austria. Johann Adam's father was Johann Eller born 27 August 1611 in Koenigsburg, East Prussia, Prussia. Married Anna Barbara Startzig on 9 Feb 1635 in Hesse-Nassau, Prussia. Johann Ellers father was Matthes Eller born 1585 in Koenigsburg, East Prussia dying in 1660 in Koenigsburg, East Prussia. C. Rose Green responds with the following insight: "I also have large questions about this (which I have long seen passed around about this family, but never with good explanations): "His father was George Eller born in Kaltenbrunn, Underfranken, Bayern, Bavaria (later absorbed into Germany) and married to Margaretha Huels. George Eller's father was Johann Adam Valentine Eller born 1636 in Konighburg, East Prussia, Thuringia, Bavaria--and dying in Kaltenbrunn, Unterfranken,Bavaria (which became part of West Germany). He was married to Margaret Gerbert born 1648 from Planer, Schmelzthal, Bohemen, Austria. Johann Adam's father was Johann Eller born 27 August 1611 in Koenigsburg, East Prussia, Prussia. Married Anna Barbara Startzig on 9 Feb 1635 in Hesse-Nassau, Prussia. Johann Eller's father was Matthes Eller born 1585 in Koenigsburg, East Prussa dying in 1660 in Koenigsburg East Prussia." My question is about the locations. Kaltenbrunn is a village in today's northern Bavaria. Unterfranken was a region of Franken (Franconia), a country that united with Bavaria about 200 years ago. (We lived in Mittelfranken for some time and two of my children were born there.) About 10 km (so, 7 miles, within walking distance) is another village, called Königsberg. It is also in Unterfranken and is likely to be part of the same parish as Kaltenbrunn. However, Königsberg East Prussia is about 1000 km away, and definitely not in the parish. (It is also not in Thuringen. Or Bavaria. Today it's called Kaliningrad, and is a subautonomous enclave owned by Russia but located between Poland and Lithuania.) I realize that both Königsbergs exist--however, it would seem much more likely that the individual in question came from the one within the parish. Which makes me question the geography of some of the other people, in particular the Schmelzthal one--Bohemia is closer, but still well to the east; today's Czech Republic. I know there were migratory patterns out of Switzerland and western Austria shortly after the 30 Years' War--so, 1600s--but were people likely to move from Bohemia *westward* across Germany? I am not saying it's impossible, but I haven't seen much casual evidence of it, and so I would like to know more about that. I *can* see the possibility of the Startzig individual moving from Hessen to Unterfranken because it follows a known (east/northeasterly) migration pattern, but given my other questions, I kind of feel like that might need a closer look, too. So, hence my question: what is the source of this material? Last I checked, the records were not microfilmed (there is a Kaltenbrunn in the FHL catalog, but it's in Schlesien, which is a completely different area), and good friends/ward members in Germany who were originally from that area (and had Huels/Hüls ancestors from Kaltenbrunn) had had trouble getting access to the records in person. They exist, but whoever holds/held them was rather resistant to at least Germans coming to do genealogy. (I believe they may have been more open to foreigners viewing them.) Which parts are directly cited from primary sources, and which parts are logical conclusions (ie the location of Königsberg)? This is something I have tried to find out and never been able to track down. I would have consulted the records directly myself, but I do not have access to them. The individuals in Kaltenbrunn (at least the Huels line) did really exist. However, if it turns out that our Ellers are from somewhere else, I would not be disturbed (but would likely examine the evidence very closely--once you get to Germany, people do not tend to move around very much, and a strong knowledge of German and the local geography can usually yield good results. The weakest point and hardest to clarify is the connection from undocumented colonial America to Germany, of course.)" D. Devon responds as follows to Rose's comment apparently convinced of the errors of the above statement: "I believe you have helped us "narrow down" -- or at least eliminated some falsities ... regarding George Michael's parents. In the 1950s my father and mother ... spent a lot of time each winter going to Salt Lake to ... make legal sized family group sheets on our family lines ... they've given me tremendous insight and a far greater amount of information than most of my relatives. However, I also found that much of what they were being told by well meaning family members, and paid researchers just wasn't true. Mom always told me that the Stokers and Ellers came from England. Why? Because we were at war with the Germans -- and nobody in our flag waving town would admit their name was German. My research started revealing that our families did come from Germany, and France, and Switzerland and in the instance of the Ellers likely came in the 800's from Jutland -- a peninsula in Denmark -- into Lake Constance (the lake separating Germany, Switzerland, and Austria) as Viking like conquorors. They settled in the Hirshberg high in the Algauer Alps of Austria ... I believe those folks eventually realized they couldn't steal and pillage forever, when they already had taken everything worthwhile. They became farmers, and fishermen, and shopkeepers etc. to sustain life. I believe some of those Ellers eventually went north into Prussia and Bavaria--and are relatives that we are talking about today. I believe they eventually followed the immigration patterns -- going north or west or where ever clearing land until it was "farmed out" -- or growing too large as a family for the land mass they had claimed would no longer support and feed the family. As a result others moved on -- and some stayed in those areas. Eventually in the 1740s I believe those Ellers started trekking into Baden, in Baden-Wurttemberg -- floating down the Rhine River as a cheap and easy form of transportation to the open sea -- in Rotterdam or Amsterdam eventually coming into Philadelphia, into Maryland, into North Carolina..." E. Rose did a little further research about the Eller line of the LDS Church Presdency Henry B. Eyring and concludes that we are not on the same path with our George Michael Eller: "... it looks like President Eyring comes to Georg Eller of Kaltenbrunn in quite a different way from us--his great grandfather was the immigrant (from Coburg), and so his connections to the Ellers in Kaltenbrunn are mere German genealogy -- not the complicated matching our generation has to go through across the ocean. I've no doubt President Eyring's ancestors are Georg Eller and Margaretha Huels, but does our Georg Michael Eller come into that family? I don't know." 2. The Eller Chronicles published by the Eller Family Association, 817-297-1280, is an organization devoted to the study of the Eller Family and should be consulted from time to time on research developments. The Association is very active with paid German researchers and many contributors. They research all five immigrant lines of George Michael, Henry, John Jacob, Melchior, and Christian. What I have here in the following notes are general information on the latter three. My database follows the first two immigrants especially George Michael Eller my direct ancestor. Consult their book FHL Book 929.273, film 6005243, "John Jacob Eller and His Descendants with Other Pre-1800 Eller Immigrants to America," by the Eller Family Association, 1998, 817-297-1280, for a map of early Rowan County showing the plats of the three presumed brothers - John Jacob, Melchior, and Christian - on the Yadkin River and Crane Creek near Salisbury, NC. 3. So far I only list two sons, George Michael and Henry. There may be some relationship between these two with John Jacob, Melchoir, and Christian Eller of Rowan County, North Carolina. Rowan County was the original furthest west North Carolina county in colonial days and later was divided up into more than 20 other counties and the State of Tennessee. The following article is from the online "Eller Chronicles;" the author, J. Gerald Eller, is well respected in the Eller Family Association. Copied from website http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~adelr/feb94/feb94p5.htm. He notes: "Were John Jacob, Christian, John Melker, George Michael and Henry Eller close relatives, even brothers? Present evidence supports only a limited answer. That John Jacob and John Melker were brothers is considered proven; a preponderance of evidence supports the same relationship existed with Henry and George Michael Eller. Christian was a probable brother or close relative of Jacob and Melchior. If all five were not brothers, they appear, as J.W. Hook inferred, to have been close relatives who probably came from the same place in Germany. The search for that place is a current Eller Family Association sponsored research project." The Eller Chronicles' primary focus is on John Jacob Eller, but they do offer insights on other early Ellers as well. Also in the same article: "Immigrant Jacob Eller, Sr., of ROWAN County, NORTH CAROLINA (ca. 1705 -1782)." Aspects of the genealogy and family history of immigrant Jacob Eller, Sr. and the interrelationships established through marriages between the early Henkels, Biffles, Ketcheys and Ellers are the subjects of this report. A limited review of the genealogy and family history of the Henkel family is provided for the benefit of those Ellers who may not know of this fascinating family. Reviews of the Biffle and Göttge families will appear in a book on Descendants of Jacob Eller, Sr. which is expected to be published in time for Eller Family Conference in 1995. Proof is also provided that Adam and had a daughter Mary who married Jacob Eller, Jr. Published records of the Biffles and Henkels fail to list Mary Biffle Eller. The German names of Henckel, Biffle, and Göttge appear in their English form as Henkel, Biffle and Ketchey, except for direct quotes. Variant spellings of the German surname Eller exist- but this name is spelled correctly in most early records in North Carolina, except for an occasional Ellar or Ellor. Fig. I shows the lines of descent of these four immigrant German families and the interconnections produced by early marriages. The progenitors of each family settled first in Philadelphia (now Montgomery) County, Pennsylvania between 1717 and 1751; they were: Rev. Anthony Jacob Henkel (arrived 1717), John Paul Biffle (arrived 1738), Jacob Eller (arrived 1748?) and John Ketchey) (arrived 1751). In the St. Paul's Lutheran (Red Hill) Churchbook of Montgomery County, Pennsylvania is the record of the marriage of Jacob Eller, to "Maria Eva Goettge" (Mary Eva Ketchey) on 11 Dec. 1753. The record identifies his father, "Casper Eller," his father-in-law "Johannes Goettge" (John Ketchey) from "Zweybrucken," and his place of birth ("the German Palatinate.") Apparently Jacob Eller lived in the New Hanover Township of Philadelphia (now Montgomery) County, PA, with the other three families. This Jacob Eller is believed to be the John Jacob Eyler who arrived in Philadelphia aboard the Edinburg from Rotterdam on 5 Sep 1748. Although Jacob Eller was born in the Palatinate, he may have lived elsewhere at the time of his emigration. Strassburger and Hinke, Pennsylvania German Pioneers, Vol. 1, list several other Ellers some of whom were probably his close relatives. "Melchior Eller" appeared in the Evangelical Church record of New Hanover, Montgomery Co., Pennsylvania, April 17th, 1756, "in his 20th year" son of "the late Casper Eller. Melchior, too young to be listed on ship passenger records, probably arrived before his sixteenth birth date, perhaps in 1748 at age 12 with his older brother Jacob. The first name of both Jacob and Melchior was John. German custom, if followed in this family, meant that the full name of their father was Johann Casper (Kaspar) Eller. (Note: it was not unusual for male children in the same family to share the same first name - this was also true for female Children.) Casper Eller, as inferred from the above, died apparently between 1753 and 1756. His name has not been found among American records. He probably died in Germany, not necessarily in the Palatinate. Names identical to his are found in German records but none fit the proper time period. It is possible, but believed improbable, that Casper Eller was a German emigrant whose name went unrecorded or whose record was lost in America. To find records in Germany for an individual without a clue to his village and family of origin is not an easy task. Any extant German records may be in some obscure village church book. Three of the families came from known villages in the German Palatinate: the Henkels from Nekargemund, the Biffles from Contwig and the Ketcheys from Ruschberg, but, as indicated, the village and family of origin for Jacob Eller remain unknown. Members of all four families migrated south to Rowan County, NC, between 1750 and ca. 1760. One progenitor, John Paul Biffle, and John Justus Henkel, a son of a second progenitor, were among the earliest Germans to reach Rowan County, NC, arriving there before 1751. John Ketchey came after 1756 accompanied probably by sons-in-law Jacob and Melker Eller. In records in Rowan County, NC, the name "Melchior" is usually spelled "Melker." Family tradition and records in Rowan County, North Carolina provide additional evidence that John Jacob and John Melker Eller were brothers. Land records and maps show that they lived in the Crane Creek community, near Salisbury, Rowan County, NC, where they acquired land along with Christian Eller, but all three may have arrived in Rowan County several years before the date of their first land records: Jacob (1761), Christian (1762) and Melker (1754). Jacob was said to be the eldest of the three and Melker the youngest. Apparently J. W. Hook was told in Rowan County that Jacob and Christian were known to be well-educated; this a probable inference based on their records of service on juries and as executors of wills, etc. Germans in this period were not named usually to juries or to serve as executors of wills without the ability to read and write English. Christian Eller was identified in Paul Biffle's will (1777) as his executor and son-in-law - he also served as executor of Jacob Eller, Sr.'s will (1782). According to Hook, Christian Eller's wife died soon after reaching Rowan County, and records there show his second wife was Mary Elizabeth Biffle, daughter of John Paul Biffle. Although tradition in Rowan County says that Christian, Jacob, and Melker Eller were brothers, Jacob in naming Christian as executor of his will (1782) referred to him as "my good friend," causing questions to be raised about their exact relationship. If not a brother, he likely was a close relative. After deciding to move south, the Ellers, no doubt, followed the usual practice of other Germans and "left Pennsylvania in the fall as soon as their crops were gathered. Therefore, they arrived in the South just before cold weather, well supplied with the means of passing through the winter without undue hardship." The common mode of transportation was by wagon and their probable route was the Great Wagon Road that ran from Pennsylvania through the Shenandoah Valley to the Yadkin River Valley of North Carolina. The Great Wagon Road and the Trading Path from tidewater Virginia, two much traveled routes, met at the Trading Ford a short distance upstream from the homes of the Ellers and a few miles downstream from the home of Squire Boone and his son, Dan'l. Among the earliest Eller records reported in Rowan County, NC, are: Christian, (1759), Michael (1759), Jacob (1761), and Melker (1764). These early Ellers must have witnessed the hordes of settlers and traders who passed through Salisbury or paused at the Trading Ford on the Yadkin River to rest, trade, and replenished their supplies before moving on southward to South Carolina and westward toward the Blue Ridge Mountains. Some of the hundreds of travelers who passed the Trading Ford were seeking land and new homes while many were traders on their way to the Indian territories. As farmers, all three Ellers probably bartered their produce for other items at the Trading Ford. The Ellers were probably among the flood of Pennsylvania Germans who left Pennsylvania during the 1754-1760 period to settle in Rowan County, NC. Because the most fertile land had been taken by the Scotch-Irish, the Germans settled on the less fertile strip between Salisbury, NC, and the Yadkin River. Jacob Eller's farm was on the west bank of the Yadkin at the mouth of Crane Creek. The farms of Melker and Christian were further upstream on Crane Creek. Bernheim says, "These German settlers were all industrious, economical, and thrifty farmers, not afraid or ashamed of hard labor, and they were soon blessed with an abundance of everything which the fertile soil and temperate climate could furnish them ... as they were agriculturists, they generally avoided settling ... in town." Few church records are known for the early Ellers in Rowan County, NC. They were apparently members of the early church where Lutherans and Reformed worshipped and which grew into present-day Union Lutheran Church on Bringle Ferry Road. Graves for the first and second generation of Ellers in Rowan County are unmarked. Most Ellers were probably buried at the Union Lutheran Church Cemetery where a number of unmarked graves are known to exist. A persistent suspicion that some Ellers in Rowan County were German Baptist Brethern (Dunkards) arose apparently from the incident when John Melker Eller and his son, John Melker, Jr., were hailed into court for refusal to bear arms. Because John Melker, Sr., was confirmed in the Lutheran Church (1756), and since no Dunkard church existed in Rowan County, he was not likely a Dunkard. However, the pacifist philosophy of the Dunkards and other pacifist sects, so common in Pennsylvania, may have been embraced by young Melker Eller, even though he joined the Lutheran Church." 4. Website "It seems clear that the name Eller is of German origin and means literally "one who lives near an alder tree" (German: Erle), or it may have some connection with the noun Ell-e which means a yard, as in a unit of measurement. The E-1-1-e-r spelling has remained remarkably standard, although variations including E-1-e-r, A-1-1-e-r, and E-1-1-o-r- have been found in records referring to a Jacob Eller descendant. There are literally scores of persons (and a few place names) with E-1-1-e-r spelling in West Germany today. Eller immigrants continued to come to the United States well into the nineteenth century so that there are numerous Eller families in various sections of the country..." 5. FHL Book 929.273EL54h "George Michael Eller and Descendants of His in America," compiled by James W. Hook, 1957, also on FHL film 896571, item 2, is a major work on the Eller, Graybill, Stoker, and other related families. James Hook published several books, but this his last was the culmination of a lifetime of pioneering research into the Eller family. Many books and even the Eller Family Association established about 1987 and who publishes the Eller Chronicles have followed in his wake. His work was indeed the first on the Eller family and is still the reference point from which many others build upon. He was born in the 1880's and probably had some contact with family tradition not now available to us now. The following are selected quotes and general information from the "Foreward" and first chapter "Ellers in America": P. I: "Settlers who came to America in the 17th and 18th centuries and settled in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Virginia and migrated thence into the Carolinas and Georgia are not as easy to follow as those who settled in New England. Town and church records were not so generally kept and land records linked as they were to proprietary rights and practices delayed and often precluded the recording of small acreage leases and deeds Thus a descendant of an old southern family whose forebears were not substantial plantation owners has a job on his hands to write a genealogy of his family… Western North Carolina, where these families lived, did not feel the impetus of permanent settlement until about the second quarter of the 18th century. At that time thrifty settlers from New Jersey, palatine Germans from Pennsylvania and Maryland and the Scotch-Irish of Ulster came streaming in to take up land in all parts of the state, particularly in the huge district in the north west that came to be known as Rowan County… Most of the land in north west North Carolina at that early date was held by large land holding syndicates in London. One of these syndicates was headed by Henry McCulloh who with Arthur Dood and others received warrants in 1737 for 1,200,000 acres located along the Yadkin, Eno and Catawba rivers. This is the section where Ellers… Koons, Dicks, and Stokers… settled. Many of these early deeds in Rowan County show Henry McCulloh as grantor… Pp. 1-5: "The Eller families in America came, apparently, from the Palatinate of Germany in the first half of the 18th century. The Pennsylvania Archives, 2nd Series, Vol. 17, records the arrival of thirteen families each spelling the name Eller who took the Oath of Allegiance to the state and province of Pennsylvania between 30 Sep 1740 and 3 Nov 1772. The age of only one of these immigrants, namely that of George Eller, who arrived 7 Oct 1743 was recorded. He was 20 years old, Conrat Iller with children named Maria, Caterina, Elizabeth and Margaret came on the ship 'Allen' and took their Oaths of Allegiance 15 Sep 1729. Other families with such names as Oehler, Eyler, Uhler, Aller, Eheller, Euler, Ahler, Ohler, and Uller came at various times between 1737 and 1768 but since all of these names are found in present day families it is not likely that the Ellers of America were descended from any of them. Of the thirteen Eller families who took the Oath of Allegiance only four with the same or nearly the same given names were found in later records. Michael Eller came on the ship 'Phoenix' form Rotterdam and took his oath 30 Sep 1743. Later a Michael Eller, on 12 Apr 1753, was granted 25 acres of land in Lancaster Co., Penna. and in the year 1759 a Michael Eller was on the tax list of Rowan Co., North Carolina. A George Eller, aged 20, took the Oath of Allegiance 7 Oct 1743. He came on the same ship ebear of the Eller family herein chronicled… A Henry Eller came on the ship 'Neptune' from Rotterdam and took the Oath of Allegiance 25 Oct 1746. On 6 Jun 1767 a Henry Eller bought land called Hammond Strife in Frederick Co., MD… Apparently he was a brother of George Michael Eller. A Henry Ellars (Ellers) sold land in Kent Co., MD in 1745 and 1748. His wife was Margaret, sometimes written Margrethe, who apparently died soon after the 1748 deed was executed. A Christian Eller came on the ship 'Restauration' from Rotterdam and took the Oath of Allegiance 9 Oct 1747. On 28 Jan 1762 Christian Eller bought land on Crane Creek in Rowan Co., North Carolina. (Deed Book 5, p. 347/8, Rowan Co., NC.) The will of Paul Beefle of Rowan Co., dated 15 Dec 1762, mentions Christian Eller as one of his sons-in-law. Other Ellers in the early North Carolina records were Jacob Eller who bought land on the 'Athin (Yadkin) or Pedee River or branches thereon in Rowan Co., NC,' 31 Dec 1761 (Deed Book 5, pp. 36-37, Rowan Co., NC), and Melker Eller who bought land on Crane Creek in Rowan CO., NC, 10 Apr 1764. (Deed Book 5, p. 463, Rowan Co., NC). Only Christian and Jacob Eller of the early settlers in Rowan Co. left wills and Jacob failed to name all of his children so that it has been impossible to identify and classify their descendants with certainty. Jacob Eller's will was dated 12 Apr 1782 and proved 7 May of the same year. (Will Book B., p. 145, Rowan Co.) It mentioned 'my last wife Barbary' and my 'two youngest children she bore unto me.' It also mentioned 'my eldest son Jacob and my daughter Elizabeth' also 'my daughter Eve; who was to be left in the care of 'Widow Evry (Eary) as she has had the care of it since the death of its mother.' Also mentioned were 'all my other children'; also the executors who were to be 'my well beloved friends Christian Eller and John Gitchy.' Melcher Eller and Matthia Scudder were witnessed. On 9 Feb 1785 Frederick Eller, aged 18 and Elizabeth Eller, aged 12 years, both orphan children of Jacob Eller, deceased, were bound to Abram Eary until they reached the ages of 21 and 18 respectively. (Minute Book 1773-1786 of Rowan Co. Court, p. 465.) Other children apparently included a son, John, another son, John Melcher, and a son, Christian. (Deed Book 18, p. 344, also p. 308 Rowan Co.) It was not uncommon for German parents to use multiple given names where in one of those names applied to more than one child. That the Jacob Eller of this will was the same as the Jacob Eller who bought land in Rowan Co., 31 Dec. 1761 is proved by Deed, Book, 12, p. 280, dated 5 Jun 1782, by which Christian Eller, acting as executor of Jacob's will, sold this same land to Adam Frees. The will of John Gitchey of Rowan Co. dated 3 Sep 1772 mentions daughters Eve and Elizabeth Eller, obviously meaning daughters who had married Ellers, sons probably of Jacob. The will of Christian Eller was dated 30 Apr 1804 and proved in the May session, 1804, of the Probate Court of Rowan Co., NC. (Will Book C, p. 277, Rowan Co.) It made no mention of a wife who doubtless was deceased, but mentioned children named John, who was designated executor, George, Henry, Frederick, Susanna Eller, Mary Wattinger and Barbara Hess. Andrew Draner and Jas. Fisher were witnesses. Later records (Will Book H, p. 45) show that Susanna Eller, mentioned in the will, was the wife of one John Eller whom she married 9 Oct 1782. George Eller quite certainly was the George Eller who married Christena and, sometime before 1790, settled in Grayson County, VA. Henry Eller probably was the Henry Eller who died in Wyeth Co., VA in 1838/39. Frederick Eller probably was the Frederick Eller who married Margaret Long in Grayson Co., VA in 1795. John Eller, son of Christian, died between 10 Apr 1820 when his will was written and the May 1820 session of the Probate Court of Rowan Co., when it was proved. It gave his property to his housekeeper during her lifetime and after her death to John Eller, son of his sister Susanna. It mentioned his wife Margaret who apparently had deserted him and left the residue of his estate to John Eller, son of John Melcher Eller and to Miles Alexander Kepler. (Will Book H, p. 45, Rowan Co., NC) He died, it appears, without issue. There is a tradition stemming from a statement made by David Eller, (John, Peter, George Michael) to his grand nephew, the Reverend William H. Eller to the effect that his (David's) grandfather was George Eller and his great grandfather probably, Chrissy (Christian) Eller. This tradition, now disproved, was recorded [in previous books of this author]… Certain deeds found in the Ashe County Courthouse at Jefferson, NC (Deed Book F, pp. 83 and 414) and Deed Book M, p. 163) prove conclusively that it was Peter Eller, not George Eller who was the grandfather of David Eller. The will of Christian Eller above referred to does not mention a son Peter. It does mention a son George who, as stated above, was probably the George Eller who married Christena and was living in Rowan Co. in 1778-1784, (Rowan Co. Superior Court, March 1778, March 1779, March 1783, Sept 1783 and March 1784.), and in Grayson Co., Virginia after about 1784. (Deed Book 1, p. 455, Grayson Co., Va.) George Eller of Grayson Co., VA apparently was a brother of Frederick Eller of Grayson Co. who married Margaret Long in 1795, (Grayson Co., VA marriages), and raised a large family. If this was true then George also was a brother of Henry Eller who became wealthy for his time and died without issue in Wyeth County, VA in 1838 or 1839. (Will Book 5, p. 194, Wyeth Co. Virginia.) A known son of George and Christena Eller was George Eller Jr. who removed to Ky. and John Eller who settled in Monroe Co.., Ind. Another son, doubtless, was Christian Eller shown as Chirstian Etter (sic), aged between 50 and 60 in the 1840 census of Lawrence Co. Ind. and as Christian Eller (sic), aged 70 in the 1860 census of the same county, born in VA. These two Indiana counties adjoin each other. Peter Eller, grandfather of David Eller, as will be shown later, was, without question, a son of George Michael Eller whose will was probated in Frederick County, Maryland, 28 Aug 1778. It doubtless was the latter who introduced the name George into the Wilkes and Ashe Counties tradition. Melker (Melcher) Eller of Rowan Co., NC, left no will but on 8 Nov 1782 Melcher Eller, Sr. and Melcher Jr. are shown defending their estates against confiscation by the State of NC. Apparently they were thought to have been Tories when probably they were German Baptists Brethren (Dunkards) who, because of their religious faith, refused to bear arms. They were adjudged not guilty. (Minute Book 1773-1886 of Rowan Co. Court, p. 330.) The census of 1790 of Rowan Co., NC lists the family of Melcher Eller, doubtless Melcher Eller Jr. with four males under 16 and two females which included the female head of the family. It also lists the family of John Eller, son of Melcher with two females including the female head of the family. A Henry Eller, the inventory of whose estate was filed Feb. 1806 may have been a son of Melcher or Jacob. Of the 11 Eller families shown in the Fed. Census of Rowan Co., NC in 1790, 8 of them can be identified as sons either of Jacob, Christian or Melcher. The other three were named Leonard, John and George. That Leonard was a son of George Michael Eller who died and left a will in Frederick Co., MD that was probated 25 Aug 1778 is substantially proved. That John and George were Leonard Eller's brothers appears reasonably certain to this writer. Another brother of Leonard was Peter Eller, who lived first in that part of Rowan Co. that, in 1777, became Wilkes and 1799 Ashe Co., NC. The evidence is strong that Jacob Eller who settled in Botetort Co., VA about 1790 was still another brother. [This last statement has since been put in dispute - see Jacob's notes in this database.] Peter Eller is listed in the 1790 census (original list) of Wilkes Co., NC and is the only person of the Eller name outside of Rowan Co., NC who is shown in the 1790 census of North Carolina…" 6. FHL Book 929.273, film 6005243, "John Jacob Eller and His Descendants with Other Pre-1800 Eller Immigrants to America," by the Eller Family Association, 1998, 817-297-1280, Chapter 1, concerning migration patterns in Colonial North Carolina and early pre-1800 immigrants: "When the Ellers... arrived in Pennsylvania, they found all the productive land occupied, or available only at high prices. In the favored easterly sections, the cost of farms was almost prohibitive. Under these conditions the newly arrived German immigrants began to move southward, some stopping in Maryland, and some in the Shenandoah Valley. When word came of cheap and abundant land in North Carolina, particularly in Rowan County, that became the choice destination for a growing stream of German migrants who traveled south on the Great Wagon Road... [The Ellers presumed path from their homeland was] German Palatinate - Rhine River - Rotterdam - England - Philadelphia - Montgomery County, Pennsylvania - Great Wagon Road - Crane Creek on the Yadkin River in Rowan County, North Carolina... Their arrival there began about 1745, the number increased markedly prior to 1760, and except for a decline during the French and Indian War, continued until the Revolutionary War. A large number of Scotch-Irish settlers had settled in Rowan County, and taken up the most fertile land prior to the arrival of the Germans. This left the land of less fertile soil to the east and southeast of Salisbury for the Germans." "In colonial times two major travel routes entered North Carolina from the north. The Great Wagon Road began in Philadelphia, passed through the Shenandoah Valley, and entered the northern border of North Carolina. After crossing the Yadkin River at the 'Shallow Ford' west of Winston-Salem, North Carolina, the road continued south to Rowan County and beyond. This was the route taken by most of the Pennsylvania Germans who came to North Carolina." "Another route known as the Trading Path began in tide-water Virginia at Petersburg and joined the Great Wagon Road at the Trading Ford on the Yadkin River only a few miles east of the present town of Salisbury, Rowan County, North Carolina… Until after the French and Indian War, which ended in 1761, the Indians, principally the Catawba and Cherokee tribes, were not far to the west of Salisbury." "From the Trading Ford, the road continued southward into Cabarrus and Mecklenburg Counties and on into South Carolina. Situated strategically at the confluence of major travel and trading routes, Salisbury, founded in 1755, remained for decades the most western frontier town in North Carolina. Rowan County extended westward beyond the Appalachian Mountains to include the present state of Tennessee. This gave the distinction to Rowan County of being the largest ever in the United States. The trans-mountain region was destined to become the state of Tennessee in 1796, but first it was a part of the Cherokee Indian Nation, as was most of the mountain area of present western North Carolina… [It was] reported that settlers were coming from the north in hundreds of wagons, and in 1755 it was reported that 5,000 had crossed the James river in Virginia bound for Rowan County..." "[During the French and Indian War of 1759-1760 which disrupted life in Rowan County, immigrant] Christian Eller [was] listed in a militia company in 1759 that was called up after an Indian attack near Salisbury. (Clark-1983, p. 851. Christian Eller listed on 'muster roll of Captain Morgan Bryan's Scouts.")…Three young Eller men from Rowan County fought in the Revolutionary War (John Melchior Eller, son of immigrant John Jacob Eller; John and Joseph Eller, other probable sons of immigrant John Jacob Eller.)…" "North Carolina is unique among coastal states in that settlement did not spread from the coast, but from the north and south… Also, from South Carolina came new settlers who settled in the western part of the state [of North Carolina]… In the last 16 years of the Colonial Era… south bound traffic along the Great Wagon Road was numbered in the tens of thousands. It was the most heavily traveled road in all America… A significant number [of settlers] moved to the head waters of the Yadkin River, then crossed the Appalachians on the Boon Trail, to settle… in an area that was destined to become the northeastern corner of the state of Tennessee… Some descendants of immigrant Eller families of Rowan County were drawn toward the western frontier. Peter Eller, eldest son of George Michael Eller, moved to the headwaters of the Yadkin in time to acquire choice land in Wilkes (now Ashe) County, North Carolina. George Eller, eldest son of Christian Eller, moved to the southeastern corner of Virginia; and John Jacob Eller, Jr., eldest son of John Jacob Eller, crossed the mountains, perhaps as early as 1779, into the Holston Valley in the future state of Tennessee…" "The Germans… usually left Pennsylvania just after fall harvest and mad the journey down the Valley of Virginia in time to arrive in the fall, build their homes, and plant crops in the spring…" "The early Eller families in Rowan County were Lutherans and records suggest they worshiped at the Peint (Pine) Church, the predecessor of today's Union Lutheran Church on Bringle Ferry Road near Salisbury…" "The first known Eller record in Rowan County was a 1758 court record for a Jas Eller. This was followed in 1759 by a record for Christian Eller, already mentioned, and a Michael Eller. Then came the first records for Jacob Eller, and John Melchior Eller, another record for Christian Eller (1762), and another record for (John) Melker (Melchoir) Eller (1764)…" "These Eller families may have arrived some years before their names appeared in public records. Some researchers think the Michael Eller of the 1759 was George Michael Eller, but this is not certain because the name Melchior was sometime recorded as Michael, and there was a Melchior Eller in Rowan County who probably arrived there before 1759. The presence of George Michael Eller in North Carolina has never been proven beyond some doubt, but several of his children lived there as adults and one, Leonard, was said the have been born there. "Land records and plat map at the Public Library in Salisbury show that Jacob, Melker (Melchoir) and Christian Eller settled near one another on sizable farms on Crane Creek, a few miles south of the Trading Ford on the Yadkin River. This stream arises southwest of Salisbury, and enters the Yadkin River some seven miles to the southeast of the town. Jacob Eller lived at the mouth of Crane Creek, only a few miles down stream on the Yadkin River from the home of his famous contemporary, Daniel Boone…" "As mentioned, the land settled by the Eller families… was not highly fertile… [which] may have been the major reason why second generation Ellers left Rowan County in the last quarter of the 18th Century…" The book explains it is difficult to sort out all the Eller families in North Carolina since the same given names were recycled among successive generations. Another problem was the use of the same first name, i.e. John, whereas the middle name would change but not always be recorded with some public records of Rowan County usually listing only one given name, sometimes the first, often the second, but rarely both. The Eller Family Association has not been successful to date in placing all of the Ellers of Rowan Co. into a broad and linked genealogy. J. Gerald Eller, one of the principals and founders of the modern Eller Family Association, presents in the book a chronological listing of all known pre-1800 Eller immigrants to America beginning in 1663 in Virginia including 26 total. Included in the list with his comments are: No. 9: "Geo. Eler also listed as Hanes Jerg Oheler 1743, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania), '…imported in St. Andrew… from Rotterdam… last from Cowes.' (S&H, Pennsylvania German Pioneers, Vol. 1), p. 348. Hook, 1957, p. 6, says with reference to George Michael Eller, 'he may have been the George Eller, aged 20, who came on the ship St. Andrew with Hans George Oehler, aged 43, both of whom took their oaths 7 Oct 1743.' No descendants are known. Note: This is not George Michael Eller." No. 10: "Michael (+) Eller (1743, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania), "…imported in the ship Phoenix…from Rotterdam…last from Cowes, (S&H, Pennsylvania German Pioneers, Vol. 1), P. 356). (Note: Other evidence says this was George Michael Eller of Frederick Co., MD for whom many records exist - see Chap. 4. No. 12: "Henry (H) Eller (1746, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania), '…imported in the Neptune… from Rotterdam …last from England…' (S&H, Pennsylvania German Pioneers, vol. 1), p. 362. Note: This is thought to be Henry Eller of Frederick Co., MD for whom many records exist. He signed his name with an H rather than an X." No. 13: "Christian (x) Eller (1747, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania), "…imported in the Restauration …from Rotterdam …last from Lieth…inhabitants of the Palatinate and places adjacent." (S&H, Pennsylvania German Pioneers, vol. 1), p. 365). Note: this is thought to be Christian Eller of Rowan County, North Carolina, for whom many records exist." No. 14: Jacob Eller (1753, Red Hill, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania), Lutheran Church Marriage Record: St. Paul's Lutheran (Red Hill) Churchbook, Montgomery Co., Pennsylvania. Burgert, Annette K. 'Eighteenth Century Emigrants, Vol. II, The Western Palatinate,' (The Pennsylvania German Society, Birdsboro, Pennsylvania, 1985), p. 142. Note: This was John Jacob Eller of Rowan County, North Carolina." No. 15: "Michael Eller (1753, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania), Deed: 25 Acres, April 12, 1753. Egle, William Henry (Ed.), Wm. Stanley Ray, 'Provincial Papers: Warrantees of Land in the Several Counties of the State of Pennsylvania, 1730-1898, Vol. II, 1898,; p. 402. Note: This possibly was George Michael Eller who later removed to Frederick County, Maryland." No. 16: "Henry Eler (Eller) (1754. Lancaster County, Pennsylvania), Church Record: "Henry Eler and wife baptized 14 April 1754 by Elder Michael Franz, Conestoga Dunker Congregation, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, Cocalico District" by Martin Baumbaugh, 'A History of the Brethern, (Church of the Brethern Press, Elgin, Illinois, 1899), p. 312. Note: This Henry Eller removed to Frederick County, Maryland, and was perhaps the same Henry Eller as listed above #12 above." No. 17: "Melchior Eller (1756, The New Hanover Lutheran Church, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania), 'Pennsylvania German Church Records of Births, Baptisms, Marriages, Burials, etc., From the Pennsylvania German Society Proceedings and Addressed Vol. II., Baltimore,' (Geneal. Publ. Co., Inc, 1983), p. 299. (Note: This is the confirmation record for 'Melchior Eller, son of the late Casper Eller, in his 20th year,' and the immigrant Melchior (Melcher) Eller, of Rowan County, North Carolina.)" Chapter 2, concerning kinships among the early Eller families: "Christian Eller purchased land in 1764 near that of John Jacob and John Melchior Eller in Rowan County, North Carolina, but the degree of kinship to the latter two remains unsettled. As an executor of Jacob's will, he was called 'my well beloved friend'. This phrase has led some to doubt that Christian was a brother to John Jacob and John Melchior Eller. However, this phrase was applied to his brother-in-law, John Gitchey (Ketchey) (Jr.)." The book states that James Hook in his early 1925 book (but not in his last 1957 book) tried to connect the American Eller line to the nobility line of Elner-Eller families of the two Eller towns, one in the Dusseldorf area and the other in the Moselle River area. The book convincingly disputes this connection with expert quotes from German authorities on the Elner/Eller family. "The association of the name of Eller with the alder tree is the version most widely quoted, although it is listed as the second choice in the 'Dictionary of Surnames,' Oxford University Press, 1988, 'Eller: 1. German: habitation name from places in the Rhine and Moselle areas, so called form an old stream name Elera, Alira, possibly of Celtic origin. 2. Low German: topographic name for someone who lived by an alder tree; from Modern Low German Elre, Alre, Alder; Old High German, Elira; Modern German Erle from Erila, (alder)…" "…[We] learn from German authorities that the surname of Eller originated independently at different times and places, and that many German Eller families are totally unrelated. These reports have altered greatly our initial assumption that all past and present Eller families of Germany were related and originated from one ancestral family and place - this, we have learned, is totally incorrect…" The book notes that in German the Palatinate area is known as the Pfalz. Also that Hook could never make the connection in Germany to his dying day even though he had worked extensively in trying to connect to the Dusseldorf noble line of Ellers. One German authority noted that nobility did not immigrate to America. The authors of this book indicate past efforts to connect our immigrants to their European ancestral places and families have been unsuccessful but the association has hired recent professional research to continue the effort." SOURCES_MISC: 1. The website http://www.ellerfamilyassociation.com/ accessed 2 Feb 2018. This site is extensive and worth a look even though a lot of the information on our line appears contrived and unsupported. Other aspects are of interest and make for good background. | Eller (I3633)
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| 4782 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following are the results from my Jun 2009 research trip to the Hexham Public Library, the Northumberland Records Office at Woodhorn, and the Durham Records Office in Durham City. The Hexham Library is of no value except for a few transcription books of nearby parishes. The other two Archives are serious facilities for which we did not have adequate time. For purposes of my research, I consider the names Burnhope, Burnop, Burnup, and Burnip to all be variations of the same name - in fact to this day Burnhope is pronounced Burnup locally. This work was from parish transcription books and not from actual films or actual registers [my comments in brackets]. It certainly is not 100% comprehensive and further work is required especially in co. Durham. My search was focused in an expanding search from just south of Hexham. Our earliest Burnhope ancestral entry thus far is from Hunstantworth, which lies near the county line between counties Durham and Northumberland. It appears that co. Durham is the most likely ancestral home of the Burnhopes. All baptisms and marriages were added by myself to NFS.: A. Hexham Public Library: a. No Burnhopes in Simonburn baptisms, marriages, and burials for 1681-1851. b. No Burnhopes in Lambley 1697-1851. c. No Burnhopes in Halton (Chapelry) 1813-1851. d. No Burnhopes in Hexham marriages 1579-1754. e. No Burnhopes in Bellingham baptisms 1684-1851, marriages 1754-1851, and burials 1687-1851. f. No Burnhopes in Newbrough christenings and burials 1695-1980. g. No Burnhopes in Humshaugh baptisms 1818-1851. h. No Burnhopes in Chollerton baptisms 1643-1851 and marriages 1648, 1664-1851. i. No Burnhopes in Chollerton and dependent chapelry of Birthly burials 1664-1851. j. Stamfordshire burials 1662-1851: -Eliz. Burnip, 4, bur. 24 Feb 1826, Matfen White House. k. Warden christenings 1695-1987: -Oliver Burnhope, s. of William, woodman, and Sarah of Warden 20 Aug 1843. [Son of William and Sarah Nichols of our database.] -Marianne Burnhope, d. of Ann sp. [spinster] of Hardhough 14 May 1843. [Child bur. next year per record below; illegitimate daughter of Ann, dau. of William Burnhope and Mary Oliver, who are of this database.] -Oliver Burnhope, s. of Ann sp. of Laverick 25 May 1871. [Illegitimate son of Ann, dau. of William Burnhope and Sarah Nichol of this database. See burial record below where Oliver dies at age 2.] -Mary Burnup, d. of Elizabeth sp. of Water Side, 21 Jan 1840. [Child dies 10 days later per record below; illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth, dau. of William Burnhope and Mary Oliver, who are of this database.] l. Warden marriages: -11 Jun 1842: William Burnhipe, fa, b. herdman, Bent House, s. of Wm., herdsman and Sarah Nichol, fa, s., Water Side, d. of Wm., blacksmith, wit: Tho. Scott, Violet Nichol. [This couple in our database.] -10 Jul 1808: William Burnhope of Chapelry of Newbrough and Mary Oliver of Chapelry of Newbrough, wit: Francis Thompson and Joseph Burnope. [This couple in our database.] -12 Jul 1783: John Walton and Hannah Burnhope, both of Chapelry of Haydon, wit: Wm. Topping and Jn. Burnhope, md. by John Farrer, curate. [Both in our database; dau. of Isaac Burnhope.] -13 Jan 1788: James Sheel and Mary Snowball, both of Chapelry of Newbrough, wit: Joseph Burnhope and Jane Shaw. [Joseph most likely son of Isaac in our database.] -26 May 1862: Henry Nicholson, 22, b., blacksmith, Haydon Bridge, s. of Robt., lab., and Elizabeth Charlton, 23, s, H., d. of Jos., miner, wit: Frances Jane Shields and Cuthbert Burnup. [Cannot find any Cuthbert Burnup in the area in NFS nor 1861 census.] -21 Nov 1872: William Burnhope, 50, widower, woodman, Liverch, s. of William, woodman, and Elizabeth McKay, 25, s., High Wn., d. of Chas., coachman, wit: L. and Anne Johnson. [Both are in our database; William's first wife was Sarah Nichol.] m. Warden burials 1695-1987: -Mary Burnhope, 57, 7 Dec 1838, Waterhouses, Christian burial. [Mary Oliver of this database.] -Mary Ann Burnhope, inf., 30 Jan 1844, Hard H[ough], Christian burial. [Child chr. earlier in 1843 per record above; illegitimate daughter of Ann, dau. of William Burnhope and Mary Oliver, who are of this database.] -Oliver Burnhope, 2, 6 Sep 1873, Liverch Cott., PB curate. [Same Oliver noted above born to Ann.] -William Burnhope, 59, 28 Jul 1880, Wark, ENE. [In our database; husband of Mary Oliver and Elizabeth McKay.] -Elizabeth Burnhope, 31, 14 Dec 1883, Hexham, CA Fitch curate. [Possibly the dau. of Willliam Burnhope and Sarah Nichol who was b. abt 1852.] -Mary Burnup, 10d, 1 Feb 1840, Water Side, Christian burial. [Child chr. 10 days earlier per record above; illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth, dau. of William Burnhope and Mary Oliver, who are of this database.] B. NORTHUMBERLAND Records Office at Woodhorn: a. Haydon Bridge baptisms (1654-1665 and 1677-1991), marriages 1655-1754 and 1786-1900 with none between 1754-1786), and burials (1653-1991): i. Baptisms: there are only two sets of Burnhopes listed - seven children of Joseph Burnhope and Elizabeth and the first five children of Joseph Burnhope (1811-1881) and Ann Hunter. [Both families are in this database - see their notes for details.] ii. Burials: only one burial for Elizabeth Burnhope, dau. of Joseph, Haydon Bridge, 21, 11 Oct 1809. [This person is in our database.] [Apparently this record is not as complete as others since there are at least four other Burnhopes buried in Haydon Bridge related to us as noted in other entries below.] iii. Marriages: there are no Burnhope entries. b. Allendale (St. Cuthbert's): i. Burials 1690-1761 [According to New Family Search accessed 3 Aug 2009, William appears to be married to Mary Bateman and these are all of their children with the exception of Isaac who is their grandson. William's line appears to come from the Wolsingham, Durham area and there is no apparent direct tie yet to our family even though Carr-Shield is not too far from Isaac's Newbiggin. The Isaac in the following list appears to have died as an infant.]: -Robert Bunop, son of Wm, 14 Jan 1732, Carr-Shield, Alston Church Yard. -Wm. Burnhup, 15 Nov 1741, Hunter Gap, Church Yard. -Isaac Burnhup, son of Joseph, 19 Dec 1741, Carr-Shield, L. Church Yard. -Thomas Burnop, son of William, miner. Coalcleugh. L. Church Yard. ii. Burials 1761-Jun 1837, the following is only a year index and the original register needs to be reviewed for Burnhope entries: -Burnhope: 1765, 1767(or 1768?), 1773, 1773, 1778, 1790, 1791. -Burnup: 1806, 1818. d. Hexham Marriage Transcripts, 1754-1861: -7 Jun 1773, Wm. Burnup and Eliz. Dawson, botp (both of the parish). Wit: Mat. Robson and Jn. Daglish. [Parents of Jane chr. 1774 as noted below.] -5 May 1783, Thos. Burnup and Ann Mills, botp. Wit: Jsp. Armstrong, Wm.Telford. [Probable parents of William chr. 1787, Joseph 1789, Thomas 1790, and Emma 1792 all as noted below. May also be parent of Jane chr. 1785 perhaps reported in error to be dau. of William, the hatter, instead of Thomas, the hatter, as noted below.] -19 Sep 1814, William Burnup and Hannah Nixon, botp. Wit. Andr. Cutties and Ann Whitfield. [Probable parents of Elizabeth chr. 1819, and the twins William and Joseph chr. 1817, all as noted below as children of William, the mason. -11 Nov 1816, John Burnhope and Hannah Lee, botp. Wit. Thos. Wilkinson and Jn. Brown. [Probably John who was chr. in 1790 as noted below.] -2 Nov 1829, William Burnup and Elizabeth Lawson, botp. Wit. Matt and Ann Lee. [Has two probable children chr. per records below: Thomas 1830 and Hannah 1833.] -13 Aug 1831, Isaac Burnhope and Elizabeth Charlton, both of the parish. Wit. Jsp. Burnhope, Jane Fiske. [This couple in my database.] [An alternate transcription of Hexham marriages gives a date of 30 Aug 1830 for this couple. Source: Rounces Marriage Index: Hexham Marriages 1759-1837.] -16 May 1833, John Pickern of Haydon Bridge parish Warden and Jane Burnhope of the parish. Wit. Jsp Pickerin, Jane Lewis. [This couple in my database.] -7 Jun 1834, Joseph Burnhope of the parish and Ann Hunter of the parish. Wit. Ra. Weatherly, Doro. B???. [This couple in my database.] -1 Jan 1838, Jsp. Burnup, fa [full age] (bach.), mason, High Friar Parish Newcastle S. and son of Wm. mason. Banns. Mary Hunter, fa (spinster), straw hat maker, of the parish, dau. of Isaac. Wit. Wm. Robb, Jr., Isaba Hunter. [Joseph's chr. is noted below in 1817 as well as his 1838 marriage to Mary Hunter.] -18 May 1844, Wm. Burnhope, fa (widower), woodsman Sunnyside, son of Joseph, miller. Banns. Jane Lamb, fa, (spinster) of the parish, dau. of Wm., husbandman. Wit. Eliz. Bell and Jn. Brown. [This couple in my database.] e. Hexham Baptism Transcriptions, 1643-1850: -14 Oct 1753, Mary Burnip, dau. of Isaac of Leafield House. [In my database.] -7 Mar 1756, Joseph Burnip, son of Isaac of Whitley Mill. [In my database.] -9 Apr 1758, Ann Burnip, dau. of Isaac of Whitley Mill. [In my database.] -23 Mar 1760, Mary Burnip, dau. of Isaac. [In my database.] -17 Jul 1774, Jane Burnup, dau. of William, labourer. [Dau. of Wm. and Eliz. Dawson per marriage noted above.] -24 Nov 1776, Mary Burnup, dau. of John of Yarridge. -23 Feb 1783, William Burnup, son of William, soldier in the 5th Foot. -14 Nov 1784, Ann Burnup, dau. of John, weaver. [See 1788 burial record below.] -26 Jun 1785, Jane Burnup, dau. of William, hatter. [Could this be an error in the record for Thomas, hatter, since the birth would be more in line with Thomas and Ann Mills who married in 1783 as noted above/] -18 Feb 1787, William Burnup, son of Thomas, hatter. [Probable child of Thomas and Ann Mills per 1783 marriage noted above; see 18 Jan 1788 burial record below.] -11 Jan 1789, Joseph Burnup, son of Thomas, hatter. [Probable child of Thomas and Ann Mills per 1783 marriage noted above.] -9 May 1790, John Burnup, son of John, weaver. [Probably the same John who married Hannah Lee in 1816 as noted above.] -20 Jun 1790, Thomas Burnup, son of Thomas, hatter. [Probable child of Thomas and Ann Mills per 1783 marriage noted above.] -10 Jun 1792, Emma Burnup, dau. of Thomas, hatter. [Probable child of Thomas and Ann Mills per 1783 marriage noted above.] -3 Feb 1811, Joseph Burnhope, son of William, Woodman of Fellside. [Child of William and Mary Oliver; in my database.] -5 Dec 1813, Jane Burnhope, dau. of William, woodman, and Mary of Fellside. [Child of William and Mary Oliver; in my database.] -12 Jan 1817, Mary Burnhope, dau. of William, woodman, and Mary of Fellside. [Child of William and Mary Oliver; in my database.] -19 Oct 1817, Joseph and William Burnup, sons of William, mason, and Hannah, of the parish. [Joseph is the groom to Mary Hunter in the 1838 marriage noted above. Joseph and Mary are the parents of Isaac Hunter Burnhope chr. 1838 noted below. Probable parents of these twins is William and Hannah Nixon md. 1814 as noted above.] -6 Sep 1818, Elizabeth Burnhope, dau. of William, woodkeeper and Mary of Woodside. [Child of William and Mary Oliver; in my database.] -24 Dec 1819, Elizabeth Burnup, dau. of William, mason, and Elizabeth, of the parish. [Probably parents are William and Hannah Nixon per marriage noted above in 1814.] -30 Dec 1821, William Burnhope, son of William, woodman of Sunnyside. [Child of William and Mary Oliver; in my database.] -29 Jun 1823, Ann Burnhope, dau. of William, woodkeeper, and Mary of Sunnyside. [Child of William and Mary Oliver; in my database.] -17 Nov 1830, Thomas Burnup, son of William, mason, and Elizabeth of the parish. [Probable child of William Burnup and Eliz. Lawson md. 1829 per above marriage entry.] -21 Oct 1832, William Burnhope, son of Isaac, hind, and Elizabeth of Sunnyside. [Son of Isaac and Elizabeth Charlton; in my database.] -6 Oct 1833, Hannah Burnup, dau. of William, mason, and Elizabeth, of the parish. [Probable child of William Burnup and Eliz. Lawson md. 1829 per above marriage entry.] -9 Jul 1837, Joseph Burnhope, son of Isaac, labourer, and Elizabeth of the parish. [Son of Isaac and Elizabeth Charlton; in my database.] -15 Apr 1838, Isaac Hunter Burnhope, son of Joseph, mason, and Mary of the parish. [Son of Joseph and Mary Hunters whose marrieage is noted in early 1838. Apparently the child was conceived out of wedlock.] -22 Jan 1847, Ann Burnhope, dau. of William, woodman, and Sarah, of West Boat. [Dau. of William and Sarah Nichols; parents in my database. f. Hexham, Burial Transcripts 1754-1851, extracted for Burnhopes only: -2 May 1762, Isaac Burnip, son of Isaac. [In our database.] -11 Aug 1780, Wm. Burnip, laborer. [Probable husband of Elizabeth Dawson.] -5 Apr 1785, Jane Burnup, dau. of Wm., soldier. [See William, another son, chr. 1783 per above record.] -18 Jan 1788, Wm. Burnup, son of Thos., hatter. [Son of Thomas and Ann Mills; see 1787 chr. record above.] -27 Apr 1788, Ann Burnup, dau. of Jn., weaver. [See chr. record above for 1784.] -5 Jun 1792, Eliz. Burnup, wife of Jn., weaver. [In our database as wife of John, b. 1751.] -2 Mar 1792, Han. Burnup, dau. of Eliz. [Possibly dau. of William, laborer, and Elizabeth Dawson.] -10 Dec 1815, Ann Burnhope, 70, Hexham. -20 Feb 1820, Han. Burnup, 72, Hexham. -30 Jan 1820 (or Dec 1819), Han. Burnup, 31, Hexham. -4 Aug 1834, Mary Burnup, 2 days, Hexham. -11 Sep 1835, Eliz. Burnup, 86, Hexham. [Probably Elizabeth Dawson, wife of William the laborer who is herein noted as bur. 1780. -1 Jun 1843, Eliz. Burnhope, 62, Hexham. -27 Nov 1843, Isaac Burnhope, 61, Hexham. C. Society of Genealogists, London, England: a. Northumberland County Wide Anglican Burial Index 1813-1837, by parish register, name, address, age, burial date, and [my comments]. Note that I was able to tie and enter several of these families to those of New Family Search accessed 8 Aug 2009 even though no direct connection: -Allenheads, Mary Burnhope, Tedhope, 69, 1836 Jan 10. -Allenheads, Isaac Burnhope, Tedham Green, 68, 1836 Jun 3. -Allenheads, Thomas Burnhope, Tedham Green, 20, 1837 Mar 23. -Haydon Bridge, Joseph Burnhope, Haydon Bridge, 27, 1813 Feb 12. [In this database: Joseph, son of Joseph and Elizabeth Muse.] -Haydon Bridge, Elizabeth Burnhope, Stanfordham, 68, 1835 Oct 16. [In this database: Elizabeth Muse, wife of Joseph.] -Haydon Bridge, Joseph Burnhope, Stamfordshire, 81, 1836 Jun 27. [In this database: Joseph, husband of Elizabeth Muse.] -Hexham, Ann Burnhope, Hexham, 70, 1815 Dec 10. -Hexham, Hannah Burnup, Hexham, 31, 1819 Dec 30. -Hexham, Hannah Burnup, Hexham, 72, 1820 Feb 20. -Hexham, Mary Burnup, Hexham, 2d, 1834 Aug 25. -Hexham, Elizabeth Burnup, Hexham, 86, 1835 Sep 11. [Possibly Elizabeth Dawson of NFS.] -Earsdon, Thomas Burnop, Backworth, 5m, 1829 Apr 11. -Gosforth, Charles Burnup, Kenton, 52, 1823 Mar 29. -Gosforth, Michael Burnop, Seghill, 11m, 1833, May 3. -Longbenton, Thomas Burnup, Longbenton, 1d, 1833 Feb 28. -Newcastle All Saints, Elizabeth Burnop, Quay, 64, 1831 Jan 23. -Newcastle All Saints, Martha Burnup, Sandgate, 28, 1837 Feb 21. -Newcastle St. John, William Burnup, Postern, 1y9m, 1813 Jul 23. -Newcastle St. John, Ann Burnup, Forth Lane, 71, 1817 Mar 19. -Newcastle St. John, William Burnup, Westgate St., 63, 1819 Feb 18. -Newcastle St. John, Margaret Burnup, Benwall Bank Top, 45, 1824 Mar 23. -Newcastle St. Nicholas, Mary Anne Burnup, Manor Chare, 2m, 1813 Oct 4. -Stamfordham, Joseph Burnip, Matfen, infant, 1824 Mar 8. [Probable child of Thomas Burnhope (1796-) and Elizabeth ___ of this database.] -Stamfordham, Elizabeth Burnip, Matfen, 4, 1826 Feb 24. [Probable child of Thomas Burnhope (1796-) and Elizabeth ___ of this database.] b. Slaley Parish (started 1704) Index - Chr. 1703-1851, Mar. 1722-1851, Bur. 1720-1851: No Burnhopes. c. Ovingham Parish Transcript - Chr. 1679-1812, Mar. 1679-1812, Bur. 1679-1812: -Mar. 9 Jun 1741: Cuthbert Thompson and Eliza Burnop. -Chr. 22 Mar 1733/1734, Hannah Burnup, dau. of George. -Chr. 30 Aug 1778, William Burnop, son of John and Sarah of Nafferton. -Chr. Apr 1798 (born 20 Feb 1798) Jonathan (8th Child) of Rob Broad, native of Ryton by his wife Mary Burnop of Allendale. [This Mary may be the dau. of Isaac and Jane Burnhope upon further review.] d. Haltwhistle Parish Christening 1691-1751: No Burnhopes. e. Allendale St. Cuthbert Indexed Baptisms 1690-1761: -10 Sep 1710, Joseph Burnup, son of Wm. of Limestone Brae. [Probable child of William and Mary Bateman found in New Family Search.] -20 Sep 1713, ___ Burnup, child of Wm. of Limestone Brae. [Probable child of William and Mary Bateman found in New Family Search.] -19 Feb 1724/5, Mary Burnopp, dau. of Wm. of Cold Cleugh. [Probable child of William and Mary Bateman found in New Family Search.] -1 Nov 1727, Bartho. Burnup, son of Wm. of Carshield. [Probable child of William and Mary Bateman found in New Family Search.] -19 Dec 1734, Han. Burnop, dau. of Jos. of Carrshield. -23 Jun 1736, Joseph Burnop, son of Joseph of Carrshield. -24 Sep 1737, Mary Burnup, dau. of Joseph of Carrshield. -7 Mar 1738/9, Philip Burnup, son of Joseph of Carrshield. -23 Aug 1741, Isaac Burnup, son of Joseph of Carrshield. -16 Sep 1744, Sarah Burnup, dau. of Joseph, miner of Carrshield. -7 Sep 1754, Wm. Burnup, son of Wm., miner of Braken Hill House. f. St. John Lee Index Chr., Mar., Bur. 1664-1851: -Bap. 19 Mar 1815, Joseph Burnip, son of Wm. and Hannah, mason, Brewery. -Mar. 16 Apr 1796, John Burnip, widower of Hexham, and Ann Watson, widow of the parish. Wit: Daniel Dawson, Eliz. Hedley. -Bur. 25 Apr 1778, John Burnup, Acomb. g. Ministeracres, 1790-1840: No Burnhope entries. h. Shotley Baptism Index 1675-1786: -Bap. 21 Jul 1745, William Burnhope, son of Isaac of Newggin(sic)hope. [In my database.] i. Haltwhistle Index, Mar. 1691-1719 and Bur. 1656-1723: No Burnhopes. j. Warden Index 1695-1725/Newbrough 1695-1724: No Burnhopes. k. Haydon Bridge Burial Index 1654-1812: -4 Oct 1781, Isaac Burnhope of Woodhall. [In my database.] -1 Oct 1809, Elizabeth Burnhope, dau. of Joseph of Haydon Bridge. [In my database.] -25 Oct 1790, Thomas Burnhope, son of Joseph of Woodhall. [In my database.] l. St. Peter Bywell, Male Marriage Index 1663-1837: -18 Feb 1773, John Burnup and Sarah Trueman. m. Newburn, Male Marriage Index 1659-1837: -30 Dec 1766 Joseph Burnup, sailor, and Elizabeth Hindmarsh. n. Slaley, Male Marriage Index 1722-1837: No Burnhopes. o. Whitfield, Male Marriage Index 1722-1837: No Burnhopes. p. Allendale St. Cuthbert, Burial Index 1690-1851: -14 Jan 1732/4, Robert Burnup, son of William of Car Shield, bur. at Alston Church. [Probable child of William Burnop and Mary Bateman.] -15 Nov 1741, William Burnhup of Hunter Gap, bur. in the C. Yard. [Probably William who md. Mary Bateman.] -19 Dec 1741, Isaac Burnhup, son of Joseph of Carr Shield, bur. at Low Chap. Yd. -19 Apr 1753, Thomas Burnop, son of William, miner, of Coalcleugh, bur. at Chap. Yd. [Probable child of William Burnop and Mary Bateman.] -17 Feb 1765, Mary Burnup, widow, of Moorehouses. [Probably Mary Bateman.] -14 Jan 1769, Amy Burnup, wife of William, of Allen Town. -7 Feb 1773, Isabel Burnup, dau. of William and Jane, of Blackbank. [Probable child of William Burnop and Jane Jameson.] -22 Feb 1773, Mary Burnup, dau. of William and Jane, of Blackbank. [Probable child of William Burnop and Jane Jameson.] -18 Mar 1778, Thomas Burnop, son of William, Black Bank Mill. -28 Jul 1790, Mary Burnhope, dau. of William, of Blackbank. -14 Jan 1791, Bartholomew Burnhope, pauper of Allendale Workhouse. -23 Sep 1806, William Burnhope, miller, aged 63, sudden death. -28 Dec 1818, Sarah Burnhope, of Black Bank, aged 26. q. Allendale St. Peter's, Burial Index 1762-1851: -1 Aug 1808, Elizabth Burnup, widow of William, miller of Black Bank, aged 69, of palsy. -3 Jun 1836, Isaac Burnhope, of Tedham Green, aged 68. -10 Jan 1836, Mary Burnhope, of Tedham Green, aged 69. -23 Mar 1837, Thomas Burnhope, of Tedham Green, aged 20. r. Corbridge, Burial Index 1813-1851: No Burnhopes. s. Whittonstall, chr. 1774-1851, mar. 1751-1851, bur. 1774-1851 Index: No Burnhopes. t. Out of Parish Marriages (Northumberland): -Longbenton, 9 Jun 1836, John Burnup of Houghton-le-Spring and Elizabeth Bowman. -Hexham, 31 Mar 1821, Thomas Burnip of Stamfordham and Elizabeth Elliot. [In my database.] -Newcastle St. Andrews, 2 Oct 1833, John Burnup of Newcastle (St. Johns) and Dorothy Caroline Myers. u. Blanchland, chr., mar., and bur. Index 1753-1851: No Burnhopes. v. Halton, bap. 1654-1812, mar. 1654-1769, bur. 1654-1812 Index: No Burnhopes. x. Shotley, Marriage Index for Males 1670-1837, Burial Record Transcripts 1690-1812: No Burnhopes. D. Durham County (Durham Records Office in Durham): a. Durham Marriage Index 1813-1837; parish listed first: -Auckland St. Helen, Thomas Burnup and Sarah Peddese. -Bishopwearmouth, 17 Mar 1824, Robert Burnopp and Hannah Proctor. -Bishopwearmouth, 25. Apr 1829, John Burnip and Catherine Hall. -Chester-le-Spring, 7 Aug 1814, Jonathan Burnop and Phillis Shields. -Chester-le-Spring, 29 Jun 1817, Richard Burnop and Mary Welch. -Chester-le-Street, 18 Dec 1830, Jonathan Burnip and Mary Forster. -Gateshead Fell, 7 Mar 1831, George Burnop and Sarah Driver. -Houghton-le-Spring, 21 Dec 1822, John Burnop and Eleanor Morley. -Houghton-le-Spring, 24 Jul 1824, Robert Burnip and Mary Steel. -Jarrow, 26 Sep 1820, John Burnop, Isabella Weatherburn. -Lamesley, 25 Aug 1827, Thomas Burnip and Ann Rutherford. -Monkwearmouth, 11 Jan 1817, John Burnop and Margaret Lamb. -Monkwearmouth, 15 Nov 1834, James Burnip and Jane Clasper. -Sunderland, 27 Jul 1826, John Burnop and Mary Douglas. -Tanfield, 28 Oct 1815, Cuthbert Burnnip and Ann Maddison. -Washington, 26 Feb 1814, William Burnop and Elizabeth Summerside. -Wolsingham, 1 Feb 1830, John Burnip and Eliza Brown. -Wolsingham, 25 Apr 1832, Matthew Burnip and Ann Newton. -Wolsingham, 16 May 1832, William Burnip and Lucy Foster. b. Burnopfield 1851 and 1861 censuses: No Burnhopes. E. Durham Couny (Durham Records Office in Durham) Various Parish Transcript Indices by location and book number: -Auckland Deanery: -Bur. 1798-1812; 550, none. -Boldon: -Bapt., Bur. 1834-1839, none. -Burnopfield (late parish created in 1871 from Collierly, Lanchester, Medomsley, Tanfield, and Whickham): -Bapt., Marr. 1873-1901; 579, none. -Bur. 1873-1901; 579: -24 Jan 1877, Margaret Burnop of Sheep Hill, age 83. -27 Sep 1880, Margaret Burnop of Linz Colliery Hobson, age 56. -Castle Eden, Dalton-le-Dale, Easington, Monhesledon, and Seaham: -Bapt. 1813-1839; 574, Easington: -30 Nov 1835, Mary Hannah Burnhope, dau. of Cuthbert and Margaret. -6 Nov 1836, Ann Burnip, dau. of Cuthbert and Margaret. -30 Jan 1825, William Burnip, son of John and Margaret. -1 Nov 1835, William Anthony Burnip, son of James and Jane. -26 May 1819, Ann Burnop, dau. of John and Margaret. -4 Jul 1820, Ann Burnop, dau. of John and Margatet. -24 Sep 1837, Mary Jane Burnop, dau. of James and Jane. -Marr. 1813-1839; 574, Easington: -15 Apr 1822, Ann Burnip and Thomas Tyson. -Bur. 1813-1839; 574, Easington: -27 May 1819, Ann Burnop, 4 d. -13 Aug 1822, Willam Burnip, Easington Moor, 1 w. -26 Nov 1827, John Burnip, 1m. -9 Nov 1839, William Anthony Burnop, 4. -Chester-le-Street: -Marr. 1582-1837 (1663-1673 missing); 37: -18 Apr 1720, John Burnup and Anne Robson. -2 Mar 1716, Charls Burnup and Jane Smith. -9 Jul 1726, William Burnopp and Elizabeth Johnson. -22 May 1738, John Burnopp and Ann Tod. -23 Sep 1741, William Burnop and Ann Fatherly. -31 Oct 1747, Thomas Burnop and Margaret Eden. -20 Oct 1755, Charles Burnop and Isabel Chisman. -27 Jun 1756, Robert Burnop and Ann Potts. -28 Mar 1776, Gargrave Burnop and Margaret Hall. -10 Nov 1781, John Burnop and Ann Turnbull of Washington. -23 Apr 1784, William Burnop and Margaret Thompson. -27 Sep 1789, Michael Burnop and Margaret Lock. -4 Jan 1790, Joseph Burnop and Mary Mawnam. -17 May 1790, George Burnop and Mabel Richardson. -7 Aug 1814, Jonathan Burnop, 20 y., and Philis Shields, 21. -29 Jun 1817, Richard Burnop, 20 y., and Mary Welsh, 19. -18 Dec 1830, Jonathan Burnip, widower, and Mary Forsters, widow. -Croxdale: -Marr. 1732-1837; 40: -28 May 1749, Charles Burnop and Eleanor Thompson, Hett, Herrington. -Misc. footnote from Lanchester: "Rowland Galleley married a scond time, 14 Sep 1566 and was bur. 9 Apr 1597. 'Rowland Galleley of Lainchester' had a dept of Xs which he owed to Nicholas Burnope, Perpetual Curate of Croxdale (1564-1569), remitted to him by the said Nicholas according to his will dated 20 May 1569. - Sur. Soc. Vol. 2, 1835,pg. 304." -Durham St. Nicholas: -Bapt., Marr. 1798-1812; 550, none. -Ebchester/Medomsley: -Bapt. 1813-1839; 550: -Medomsley: 19 Jun 1832, Isabella Burnup, no father, mother is Isabella. -Marr. 1813-1839; 550: -Medomsley: 29 Mar 1813, Elizabeth Burnip and Matthew Forster. -Ebchester, Esh, Lanchester, Medomsley, and Satley: -Bur. 1798-1812; 574, none. -Bur. 1813-1839; 550, none. -Edmundbyers: -Marr. 1764-1840; 37, none. -Edmundbyers, Hunstantworth, Muggleswick: -Bapt. 1813-1839; 608: -12 Nov 1815, Jane Burnhope, dau. of Charles and Hannah, STP-EDM. -Marr. 1813-1839; 608, none. -Bur. 1813-1839; 608, none. -Esh, Lanchester, and Satley (also see Lanchester below): -Bapt. 1813-1839; 550: -Lanchester: 1 Aug 1813, Hannah Burnip, dau. of Matthew and Mary. -Satley: 27 Nov 1814, James Burnop, son of John and Jane. -Satley: 15 Mar 1818, Robert Burnop, son of John and Jane. -Marr.1813-1839; 550: -Lanchester: 31 May 1813, Ann Burnip and Thomas Wheatley. -Lanchester: 2 Apr 1835, Elizabeth Burnip and William Thirlaway. -Bur. 1813-1839; 550: -Lanchester: 31 Jul 1828, Mary Burnip, Stanniford Dam, MED, 22. -Lanchester: 2 Nov 1834, William Bunop, Ousterly, 53. -Gainford, Denton, and Winston: -Bapt. 1813-1839; 574, none. -Marr. 1813-1839; 574, none. -Bur. 1813-1839; 574, none. -Gateshead Fell: -Bapt., Bur. 1825-1839, 508, none. -Marr. 1825-1839, 508: -7 Mar 1831, George Burnup and Sarah Driver. -Hatton Magna: -Bapt., Marr., Bur. 1670-1962; 675, none. -Hunstantworth: -Marr. 1776-1837; 145, none. -Bapt. 1659-1760; 379: -27 Jul 1747, Kath. Burnhope, dau. of Isaac. [In my database.] -14 Jan 1747/8, John Burnhope, son of Wm. of Ramshay [Ramshaw]. [In my database.] -2 Mar 1748/9, Isaac Burnhope, son of Isaac of Ridlehope [sic]. [In my database.] -29 Jul 1750, Wm. Burnhope, son of Wm. of Ramshay. [In my database.] -10 Mar 1750/1, John Burnhope, son of Isaac of Newbigginhope. [In my database.] -29 Oct 1752, Geo. Burnhope, son of Wm. [In my database.] -Marr. 1659-1760; 379: -3 May 1747, Wm. Burnhope and Jane Short. [In my database.] -Bur. 1659-1760; 379: -8 Sep 1755, Jane Burnhope, wife of Wm. of Ramsby [Ramshaw?]. [In my database.] -Hunstanworth St. James: -Bur. 1782-1812; 521pt, none. -Marr. 1761-1851; 596: (I wrote "See Burnip 1767," but I don't recall what it means.) -Lamesly: -Marr. 1603-1837 (missing 1643-1652, 1670-1688, and 1699-1701); 37: -27 Apr 1793, William Burnip and Martha Bainbridge of Boldon. (License) -14 Jun 1708, Michael Burnop and Mary Clark. -25 Aug 1827, Thomas Burnip of Whickham and Ann Rutherford. -Lanchester (also see more Lanchester above under Esh): -Bapt. 1560-1781; 131: -1 Oct 1592, Richard Burnop, son of Robert. -8 May 1596-97?, Robert Burnop, son of Robert. -Marr. 1560-1781; 131: -Misc. footnote from Lanchester: "Rowland Galleley married a scond time, 14 Sep 1566 and was bur. 9 Apr 1597. 'Rowland Galleley of Lainchester' had a dept of Xs which he owed to Nicholas Burnope, Perpetual Curate of Croxdale (1564-1569), remitted to him by the said Nicholas according to his will dated 20 May 1569. - Sur. Soc. Vol. 2, 1835,pg. 304." -Marr. 1560-1603 (Lanchester All Saints): -3 Sep 1583, Michaell Burnop and Ann Taylor. -9 Nov 1574, Richard Burnop and Eliner Shaftay. -21 Feb 1581/2? John Burnop and Mallin Grinwell. -7 Jul 1590, Willm. Sampson and Katherine Burnop. -Marr. 1561-1837; 93: -9 Nov 1574, Richard Burnop and Elinor Shastay. -21 Feb 1581, John Burnopp and Maudlin Grinwell. -3 Sep 1583, Michael Burnop and Ann Tomson. -15 Feb 1692, George Burnop and Elenor Thomsone. (License) -25 May 1700, John Burnop and Phillis Kirby. -18 May 1715, John Burnop of Wolsingham and Isabell Hall. -30 Apr 1719, William Burnop of Wolsingham and Frances Hall. -28 May 1719, Thomas Burnop and Elizabeth Rippon. -21 Jun 1795, John Burnop and Jane Parker. -29 Nov 1802, Mathew Burnip and Mary Angus. (License) -21 Jul 1810, Thomas Burnip and Mary Turnbull. (License) -18 May 1807, John Burnnop and Elizabeth Smith. -Bur. 1560-1781; 131, (Lanchester All Saints): -4 May 1583, Will'm Burnop buried. -11 Jun 1589, Margaret Burnop buried. -26 Jul 1596, Martin Burnop was buried. (Footnote: "Martin Burnop died seised or possesed of the Howens, parcel of the manor of Conside (Consett), held of the See of Durham by Knights Service, and suit at the County Court every three weeks, leaving his son Richard, underage, his heir. - Inq. p.m 12 Nov 38 Elizabeth [1596].) -Oct 1597, Robert Burnop buried. -26 Apr 1726, Robert Burnop of Low Burnopside buried. -9 Dec 1762, died Ralph Burnap, son of Rob., age 64. -Bur. 1781-1847; 518: -31 Jul 1828, Mary Ann Burnip, Stanniforddam, MC, 22. -21 Jun 1840, John Burnip, Greenwell, 79. -2 Nov 1834, William Burnop, Ousterly, 53. -Bapt., Marr., Bur. 1560-1781 (this index only provides names, vol., and page in the parish registers and each entry needs to be looked up): -Margt. Burhope and Jn. Gargrave, C, 10. -Martin Burnhope, son of Martin, C, 25. -Jane Burnhope, C, 122. -Thos. Burnhope and Margery Reed, D, 6 or 8? -Mary Burnhope and Thos. Grice, D, 6 or 8? -Joseph Burnhope and Christian (Xtian) Dickenson, D, 10. -Geo. Burnop and El'r Thompson, C, 3. -John Burnop and Phillis Kirby, C, 5. -John Burnop and Isabell Hall, C, 8. -Wm. Burnop and Frances Hall, C, 9. -Tho. Burnop and Eliz. Rippon, C, 10. -Ann Burnop and John Forster, C, 12. -Mary Burnop and John Muleaster, C, 14. -Jane Burnop, dau. of George, C, 46. -Cuthbt. Burnop, son of Geo., C, 49. -Margt. Burnop, dau. of Rob't, C, 50. -Ann Burnop, dau. of George, C, 50. -Ralph Burnop, C, 50. -Jane or Ann Burnop, dau. of Rob't, C, 52. -Mary Burnop, dau. Tho., C, 73. -John Burnop, son of Robt., C, 97. -Ann? Burnop, C, 100. -John Burnop, C, 109. -Phillis Burnop, C, 110. -Elr.? Burnop, C, 114. -Stephen Burnop, C, 114. -Martin Burnop, C, 115. -George Burnop, C, 117. -Robert Burnop, C, 123. -Margt. Burnop, dau. of BG, D, 84. -Ralph Burnop, D, 111. -Monk Hesleden: -Bur. 1700-1812; 579, none. -Muggleswick: -Bapt. 1765-2000; 596: -2 Oct 1842, Matthew Burnip, son of William and Lucy Burnip, Eddis Bridge, miller. -Bapt. 1784-1812; 117: -24 May 1801, Jane ___, dau. of John Ramsay, labourer, native of this parish in ye county of Durham, by his wife Jane Burnip, born 14 May 1801. Note: Jane Ramsay was 4th daughter. Her mother's name was Mary not Jane. Vide Baptisms 28 Aug 1791, 21 May 1790, and 24 Jun 1805. -Marr. 1771-2000; 596: -12 Dec 1785, John Ramsay of Muggleswick and Mary Burnop of Lanchester. Wit: William Ord, Francis Lumley, Hanna Burnop. -6 Jul 1844, Johnathan Garbut, labourer of Eddis Bridge, son of Cornelius Garbut, farmer, and Jane Wilkinson, servant of Muggleswick Park, dau. of William Wilkinson, mason. Wit: William Burnip and George Wilkinson. -Marr. 1784-1812; 117: -12 Dec 1785, John Ramsay of this chapelry and Mary Burnop of the parish of Lanchester, by banns, Wit: William Ord, Francis Lumley, Hanna Burnop. -Marr. 1755-1846; 40, none. -Bur. 1765-2000; 596, none. -Bur. 1784-1812; 117: -16 Oct 1809 death, Christian Proud, late Burnip, wife of Joseph Proud, smelter of Cold Rowley, age 45 yr. -30 Nov 1805, Mary Ramsay, late Burnip, wife of John Ramsay, labourer of Muggleswick Lane Head, d. 28 Nov, age 42. -Sedgefield Deanery: -Bur. 1798-1812; 579: -10 Jun 1799, Ralph Burnip of Bishop Middleham, age 3. -Southshields (Holy Trinity): -Bapt., Bur. 1834-1839, none. -St. John's Chapel: -Bapt. 1788-1818; book 374, none. -Bapt. 1813-1839; 659, none. (Includes Heatherly Clough.) -Marr. 1828-1839; 659, none. (Includes Heatherly Clough.) -Bur. 1788-1812; 659, none. -Stanhope: -Bapt. 1609-1653; 433, none. -Bur. 1595-1653; 433, none. -Marr. 1613-1812; 68: -22 Jun 1766, Bartholomew Burnhope, s., and Sarah Vickers, Wolsingham, by banns. -6 Jun 1801, Charles Burnhope and Hanna Brown. Wit: Geo. Thompson and William Walton. -4 Jun 1774, Nicholas Harrison and Tabitha Burnhope, license. Wit: Joseph Burnop and John Hall. -14 Nov 1795, Joseph Burnhope and Sarah Armstrong. Wit: Matt'w Vickers and Ralph Gowland. -28 May 1758, Joseph Burnhope, s., and Christian Dickinson, Lanchester. -29 Nov 1812, Thomas White and Mary Burnhope, license. Wit: Will'm Snowdon and Philip Burnop. -15 Aug 1812, Stephen Burnhope and Jane Murray. Wit: Matt'w Vickers and Phillip Burnhope. -23 May 1759, Michael Burnhop of Chester and Sarah Whitfield of Stanhope. Wit: Seymour Deighton and Chris. Ather. -15 May 1733, Ralph Burnhope and Margaret Deighton. -7 Jul 1776, Stephen Burnup (he signs as Burnop) and Elizabeth Teasdale, license. Wit: John Hall and John Brown. -Bapt., Marr., Bur. 1609-1653; 137, none. -Bapt. 1659-1700; 137, none. -Marr. 1662-1695; 137, none. -Bur. 1677-1686; 137, none. -Bapt. 1691-1740; Marr. 1695-1743; Bur. 1677-1743; 137 (this index only provides a page reference to the parish registers and each entry needs to be looked up): -Burnhope: 91, 134(2), 186. -Bapt., Bur. 1740-1780; Marr. 1740-1754; 137 (this index only provides a page reference to the parish registers and each entry needs to be looked up): -Burnhope: 14, 20(2), 24, 26(2), 60, 66, 74, 82, 110, 118, 124, 142, 144, 148, 166. -Marr. 1754-1781; 137 (this index only provides a page reference to the parish registers and each entry needs to be looked up): -Burnhope, Burnhop, Burnup: 32, 132(2), 146. -Bapt. 1813-1839; 647, typical - both parents of Stanhope: -10 Oct 1818, Ann Burnhope, dau. of Stephen and Jane. -17 Dec 1813, Charles Burnhope, son of Charles and Hannah. -16 Oct 1814, Elizabeth Burnhope, dau. of Stephen and Jane. -28 Apr 1822, Isaac Burnhope, son of Stephen and Jane. -19 Mar 1826, Isabella Burnhope, dau. of. Stephen and Jane. -8 Jul 1819, Jane Burnhope, dau. of Stephen and Jane. -26 Feb 1815, John Burnhope, son of Joseph and Sarah. -25 Nov 1815, Stephen Burnhope, son of Philip and Jane. -2 May 1830, William Burnhope, son of Cuthbert and Margaret. -28 Oct 1832, George Burnop, son of Stephen and Jane. -28 Oct 1832, Mary Burnop, dau. of Stephen and Jane. -Marr. 1813-1839; 647: -31 May 1829, Cuthbert Burnhope and Margaret Tweddle. -10 Jan 1815, Hanna Burnhope and William Robson. -4 Jun 1814, Philip Burnhope and Jane Ord. -14 Dec 1816, William Burnhope and Elizabeth Elliot. -Stanhope Deanery: -Bur. 1798-1812; 521: -Stanhope: -27 Jun 1800, Elisha Burnhope, Newlandside, 22. -1 Aug 1809, Hannah Burnhope, Greenland, 2d. -Wolsingham: -20 Apr 1808, Elizabeth Burnup, Wolsingham, 85. -8 Dec 1808, Elizabeth Burnup, Upper Town, 2. -25 May 1803, John Burnup, Wolsingham, 78. -15 Nov 1807, John Burnup, Wolsingham, 57. -4 Mar 1804, Phoebe Burnup, Wolsingham, 41. -15 Sep 1807, Stephen Burnup, Wolsingam, 57. -15 Jun 1806, William Burnup, Scotch Eel, 75. -4 Apr 1809, William Burnup, Wolsingham, Infant. -Stella, St. Thomas Aquinas Roman Catholic: -Bapt. 1775-1832 (later records are in Northumberland Record Office), none. -Tanfield: -Bapt. 1813-1839; 579: -31 Aug 1828, Mary Burnip, dau. of Thomas and Ann. -1 Sep 1839, Mary Burnop, dau. of Charles and Hanna. -6 Jul 1817, John Burnup, son of Cuthbert and Ann. -Marr. 1813-1839; 579: -28 Oct 1815, Cuthbert Burnip and Ann Madison. -Washington and Ushworth: -Bapt. 1813-1839; 574: -Washington: 6 Mar 1815, Margaret Burnop, no father, mother is Ann. -Washington: 27 Jun 1837, Thomas Burnip, son of Joseph and Jane. -Marr. 1813-1839, 574: -26 Feb 1814, Washington: William Burnip and Elizabeth Summersides. Whitburn: -Bapt., Marr., Bur. 1825-1839; 508, none. -Wolsingham (see Stanhope Deanery for several Wolsingham burials): -Bapt. 1813-1839; 675: -30 Mar 1833, Ann Burnip, dau. of Matthew and Ann. -30 Mar 1839, Margaret Burnip, dau. of Matthew and Elizabeth. -8 Jun 1823, Abigail Burnup, dau. of William and Elizabeth. -21 May 1822, Mary Burnup, dau. of Joseph and Sarah. -3 Aug 1833, Mary Burnup, dau. of Joseph and Sarah. -31 Dec 1820, Stephen Burnup, son of William and Elizabeth. -9 Jun 1836, William Burnup, son of William and Lucy. -Marr. 1655-1837; 282: -8 May 1681, William Burnoup and Anne Greenwell. -29 Apr 1697, Michael Burnap and ___ ___. -19 May 1722, Anthony Burnup and Mary Snathe. -8 Sep 1743, John Burnup and Elizabeth Gibson. -30 Oct 1753, John Burnup and Alice Gibbon. -22 May 1760, William Burnup and Elizabeth Wilson. -12 Sep 1772, Anthony Burnup and Sarah Watson (license). -11 May 1777, William Burnup and Elizabeth Newton. -22 Nov 1787, William Burnup and Ann Todd (license). -1 Feb 1830, John Burnip of Bishop Wearmouth and Eliza Brown (license). -16 May 1832, William Burnip and Lucy Foster. -24 May 1832, Matthew Burnip (widower, farmer) and Ann Newton (license). -Marr. 1813-1839; 675: -3 Sep 1839, Ann Burnhope and Thomas Hall. -8 Dec 1839, Jane Burnhope and Thomas Walton. -1 Feb 1830, John Burnip and Eliza Brown. -24 May 1832, Matthew Burnip and Ann Newton. -25 Apr 1838, Matthew Burnip and Elizabeth Armstong. -16 May 1832, William Burnip and Lucy Foster. -7 Jul 1827, Mary Burnop and Miles Charlton. -Bur. 1813-1839; 675: -28 May 1818, Elizabeth Burnup, Scotch Eel. -18 Jan 1833, Elizabeth Burnup, Lanchester. -31 Jul 1822, Mary Burnup, Thornley. -5 Dec 1829, Mary Burnup, Bail Hall. -11 Jul 1837, Robert Burnup, Wolsingham. -1 Apr 1829, Thomas Burnup, Thornley. -7 Aug 1835, William Burnup, Bedburn. -12 Jun 1836, William Burnup, Castle Hill. ACTION: 1. Review the indices above for Stanhope and Lanchester for those entries with book references only without full names or dates. | Burnhope or Burnop or Burnip, Mr. (I4632)
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| 4783 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following baptismal records are found in the book "Compendium of Mohawk Valley Families," by Marily Penrose. Unfortunately none of the baptisms have sponsors' names so currently it is conjecture on my part that David, Cobus, Frans, Susanna are all siblings in the same generation. The source for the baptisms is given by the author as "DRC," which means church records of the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church. The entries appear to come from the same original church book meaning that these individuals with the same last name are geographically close. The location of the church is Caughnawaga, now the Reformed Church of Fonda, in the village of Fonda, Montgomery County, N.Y. Book also contains one marriage entry for this surname: "Cosaadt, Frans m. Nancy Johnson, 6/20/1777 (DRC:161).The entries: A. Cosaadt, Cobus And Elizabeth (Seedam): Neyltje, b. 4/4/1776, bapt. 4/24/1776 (DRC:37); Peter, b. 1777, bapt. 4/15/1777 (DRC:42); Cobus, bapt. 2/19/1786 at age 2 months (DRC:76, 77). B. David: a. David Cosaadt and Jannetje (Stimish): Jacobus, b. 11/27/1774, bapt. 1/27/1775 (DRC:32); Cataluntje, b. 11/25/1779, bapt. 1/23/1780 (DRC:54). b. David Cosnat and Janneche (Stumerse) [assumed by author and myself to be the same two individuals as above]: Benjamin, b. 12/24/1772; bapt. 3/31/1773 (DRC:24). C. Cosaadt, Frans and Nancy (Johnson): Catrina, b. 3/8/1778; bapt. 5/10/1778 (DRC:47). MARRIAGE: 1. Marriage records of "Records of the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church of Caughnawaga: now the Reformed Church of Fonda, in the village of Fonda, Montgomery County, N.Y.," New York, 1917, 748 pp.: Frans Frederick and Susanna Cosaadt, 30 Dec 1774. Frans Cosaadt and Nancy Johnson, 20 Jun 1777. ACTION: 1. I did not research this surname during my visit to the Montgomery County Archives Sep. 2007. Need to research. Any possibility that Nancy is related to the Sir William Johnson of Montgomery County whose son sided with the British in the Rev. War? | Johnson, Nancy (I3816)
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| 4784 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following baptismal records are found in the book "Compendium of Mohawk Valley Families," by Marily Penrose. Unfortunately none of the baptisms have sponsors' names so currently it is conjecture on my part that David, Cobus, Frans, Susanna are all siblings in the same generation. The source for the baptisms is given by the author as "DRC," which means church records of the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church. The entries appear to come from the same original church book meaning that these individuals with the same last name are geographically close. The location of the church is Caughnawaga, now the Reformed Church of Fonda, in the village of Fonda, Montgomery County, N.Y. Book also contains one marriage entry for this surname: "Cosaadt, Frans m. Nancy Johnson, 6/20/1777 (DRC:161).The entries: A. Cosaadt, Cobus And Elizabeth (Seedam): Neyltje, b. 4/4/1776, bapt. 4/24/1776 (DRC:37); Peter, b. 1777, bapt. 4/15/1777 (DRC:42); Cobus, bapt. 2/19/1786 at age 2 months (DRC:76, 77). B. David: a. David Cosaadt and Jannetje (Stimish): Jacobus, b. 11/27/1774, bapt. 1/27/1775 (DRC:32); Cataluntje, b. 11/25/1779, bapt. 1/23/1780 (DRC:54). b. David Cosnat and Janneche (Stumerse) [assumed by author and myself to be the same two individuals as above]: Benjamin, b. 12/24/1772; bapt. 3/31/1773 (DRC:24). C. Cosaadt, Frans and Nancy (Johnson): Catrina, b. 3/8/1778; bapt. 5/10/1778 (DRC:47). 2. Variant name spellings include Cosaadt, Cossadt, Cassadt, Cosaardt, Coesaert, Cosart, Cossart, Cosaad, Cressart, Gresaart, Gressaadt, or Cosnat. 3. Quote from Worldconnect database "rcossart" (Ray at RNCossart@aol.com) accessed 18 May 2013 concerning this individual's father: "[David Sr.'s] father's will showed him receiving a one hundred acre tract of land in the vicinity of Bound Brook, NJ. All of his children were baptized at the Raritan Church indicated that he lived somewhere in that location. David seems to have been the last of his father's four sons to remain in Somerset Co., NJ. George, the eldest, returned to New York City. Jacob died before the father and Francis, the youngest, left for the Connewgo Valley of York Co., PA. David removed with his family to the Mohawk Valley in New York just before the Revolutionary War. This David line is the only one in America that still uses the original French name of "Cossart." He settled south-west from Albany, NY. His three sons: David, Jacob, and Francis served in the American Revolutionary War. David and Catherine both were memebers of the Dutch Reformed Church at Sommerville, Somerset Co., NJ." CHRISTENING: 1. Website http://raub-and-more.com/raritanbap/07.html accessed 18 May 2013. "Baptisms Reformed Church Raritan (Somerville), NJ, March 8, 1699 -June 28, 1829" from the collection of the late Beulah Gangaware (circa 1930s), p. 35. Entry: 5 Aug 1750 Coesaert, David & Calyna(Calyne?); Fraens; no sponsors listed. The earliest known ecclesiastical organization in Somerset County was that of the First Reformed Church of Raritan (now Somerville), originally known as the Reformed Dutch Church of Raritan. It was organized March 9, 1699. The church baptismal records are preserved from the beginning, the first three baptisms recorded being March 8, 1699, made, no doubt, by Rev. Guiliam Bertholf, of Hackensack, in whose presence, next day, the first elder and first deacon of the Raritan church were installed. Bertholf probably supplied the organization with preaching until 1717. The next known minister to officiate was the Rev. Theodorus Jacobus Frelinghuysen, who was called from Holland and arrived in 1720, becoming pastor of the four churches of Raritan, Three-Mile Run, Six-Mile Run and North Branch (Readington). June 9, 1749 Rev. Dr. Messler. The baptisms were written out in the Dutch language until 1720, when English, with some Dutch intermixed, was substituted. Some of the early entries, while admirably kept and well preserved, are exceedingly hard to decipher, owing to the unusual spellings (often greatly varied) of the proper names. MARRIAGE: 1. Marriage records of "Records of the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church of Caughnawaga: now the Reformed Church of Fonda, in the village of Fonda, Montgomery County, N.Y.," New York, 1917, 748 pp.: Frans Frederick and Susanna Cosaadt, 30 Dec 1774. Frans Cosaadt and Nancy Johnson, 20 Jun 1777. SOURCES_MISC: 1. Henry Z. Jones is the author of three series of books on the Palatines: "The Palatine Families of New York: A Study of the German Immigrants Who arrived in New York in 1710," (1985); "More Palatine Families," (1991); and "Even More Palatine Families, 18th Century Immigrants to the American Colonies and their German, Swiss and Austrian Origins," 2002. I have reviewed all three and find nothing on this person. | Cosaadt, Frans (I3815)
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| 4785 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following baptismal records are found in the book "Compendium of Mohawk Valley Families," by Marily Penrose. Unfortunately none of the baptisms have sponsors' names so currently it is conjecture on my part that David, Cobus, Frans, Susanna are all siblings in the same generation. The source for the baptisms is given by the author as "DRC," which means church records of the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church. The entries appear to come from the same original church book meaning that these individuals with the same last name are geographically close. The location of the church is Caughnawaga, now the Reformed Church of Fonda, in the village of Fonda, Montgomery County, N.Y. Book also contains one marriage entry for this surname: "Cosaadt, Frans m. Nancy Johnson, 6/20/1777 (DRC:161).The entries: A. Cosaadt, Cobus And Elizabeth (Seedam): Neyltje, b. 4/4/1776, bapt. 4/24/1776 (DRC:37); Peter, b. 1777, bapt. 4/15/1777 (DRC:42); Cobus, bapt. 2/19/1786 at age 2 months (DRC:76, 77). B. David: a. David Cosaadt and Jannetje (Stimish): Jacobus, b. 11/27/1774, bapt. 1/27/1775 (DRC:32); Cataluntje, b. 11/25/1779, bapt. 1/23/1780 (DRC:54). b. David Cosnat and Janneche (Stumerse) [assumed by author and myself to be the same two individuals as above]: Benjamin, b. 12/24/1772; bapt. 3/31/1773 (DRC:24). C. Cosaadt, Frans and Nancy (Johnson): Catrina, b. 3/8/1778; bapt. 5/10/1778 (DRC:47). 2. Variant name spellings include Cosaadt, Cossadt, Cassadt, Cosaardt, Cressart, Gresaart, Gressaadt, Coessaerd, Cossart, or Cosnat. 3. Various quotes from Worldconnect database "rcossart" (Ray at RNCossart@aol.com) accessed 18 May 2013: "The family history states that this David was: "killed by Colonel Butler and his cutthroats." General John Butler (1728 - 1794) Tory leader in the American Revolution, born in New London, Conn. He fled to Canada after the outbreak of the American Revolution; there he organized Butler's Rangers, a force consisting of several hundred Indians and a number of loyalists, whom in 1778 he led in an invasion of the Wyoming Valley of Pennsylvania. The successful expedition climaxed in a massacre conducted by Butler's Indian rangers. In 1779 American troops under General John Sullivan and General James Clinton (1733 - 1812) defeated Butler's Rangers in a battle fought near present-day Elmira, NY. In 1780 Butler engaged in a British raid through the Mohawk Valley. This is where I believe David was killed for his family was living in this area at this time. The Bloodied Mohawk - Mohawk Valley Partisans pages 524 - 525: 'Lewis Pruyne, RWPA #R8507. He was born at Fort Hunter in now Florida Township, Montgomery Co., NY on April 22, 1760, a brother of Peter F. Pruyne. He married at Fort Hunter at Caughnawaga in Montgomery Co., NY. He states ... In the year 1777 was again called out with his company to Johnstown but did not long remain there when he returned and remained some time keeping garrison where there came orders to Fort Hunter to draft out of Capt. Mabeis company and six or eight men, to go to Fort Plank on the Mohawk, a few miles above Fort Plain, where there was a block house to supply the place of some men whose time at Fort Plank was expired, the draft was made and he (Pruyne) was one of the number & he & his comrades went & kept garrison there for several weeks, and he believes six or seven weeks, when he was at Fort Plank he belonged to a company commanded by Capt. G. Putman - after their places were supplied by others, he went back to Fort Hunter ... Also concerning his services in 1777, he states ... he was often called up to John Roof's house, on the Mohawk river about fourteen miles from Fort Hunter, to guard that place from the approach of the Indians, and he well recollects that he lay out doors there one whole night, expecting every moment an attack of the Indians who wanted to burn the house and barns ... He states he was again drafted to perform duties at Fort Plank as a private under Captain Garret Putman in the late fall of 1779. Lewis mentions the death of [ - - -] Cossant (Cossart) during Sir John Johnson's raid of October 1780. Lewis also served as a private in Captain Garret Putman of Lieutenant Colonel Willett's Regiment. William Furgason states they served together at Fort Plank for three weeks under the command of Captain Garret Putman of Lieutenant Colonel John Harper's Regiment of Levies in the fall of 1779. Peter F. Pruyne states he remembers seeing Lewis on duty at Fort Plank in 1777. His file also contains depositions by Abraham Covenhoven and Isaac Covenhoven.' The great Grandson of David writes regarding David: 'Bought a house and lot on Prince Street, New York in 1708 and sold it in 1713. He was a farmer. His son was David, also his Grandson, who married Grandmother, Catherine Vandercook. They spelled their name in the deed COSSART. The true name is Corsault. The grandfather was Huguenot French. Lived in New Rochelle, NY, moved to Scoharie County, NY in 1750. Great Grandfather was killed by English. "Colonel Butler and his cut-throats".' Enlisted in the Tryon County Militia 3rd Regiment, listed as David Corsaart. Moved to Montgomery Co., NY about 1772." 4. Quote from Worldconnect database "rcossart" (Ray at RNCossart@aol.com) accessed 18 May 2013 concerning this individual's father: "[David Sr.'s] father's will showed him receiving a one hundred acre tract of land in the vicinity of Bound Brook, NJ. All of his children were baptized at the Raritan Church indicated that he lived somewhere in that location. David seems to have been the last of his father's four sons to remain in Somerset Co., NJ. George, the eldest, returned to New York City. Jacob died before the father and Francis, the youngest, left for the Connewgo Valley of York Co., PA. David removed with his family to the Mohawk Valley in New York just before the Revolutionary War. This David line is the only one in America that still uses the original French name of "Cossart." He settled south-west from Albany, NY. His three sons: David, Jacob, and Francis served in the American Revolutionary War. David and Catherine both were memebers of the Dutch Reformed Church at Sommerville, Somerset Co., NJ." CHRISTENING: 1. Website http://raub-and-more.com/raritanbap/06.html accessed 18 May 2013. "Baptisms Reformed Church Raritan (Somerville), NJ, March 8, 1699 -June 28, 1829" from the collection of the late Beulah Gangaware (circa 1930s), p. 26. Entry: 17 Sep 1738 Coessaerd, Daved & Cataleyntye; Daved; no sponsors listed. The earliest known ecclesiastical organization in Somerset County was that of the First Reformed Church of Raritan (now Somerville), originally known as the Reformed Dutch Church of Raritan. It was organized March 9, 1699. The church baptismal records are preserved from the beginning, the first three baptisms recorded being March 8, 1699, made, no doubt, by Rev. Guiliam Bertholf, of Hackensack, in whose presence, next day, the first elder and first deacon of the Raritan church were installed. Bertholf probably supplied the organization with preaching until 1717. The next known minister to officiate was the Rev. Theodorus Jacobus Frelinghuysen, who was called from Holland and arrived in 1720, becoming pastor of the four churches of Raritan, Three-Mile Run, Six-Mile Run and North Branch (Readington). June 9, 1749 Rev. Dr. Messler. The baptisms were written out in the Dutch language until 1720, when English, with some Dutch intermixed, was substituted. Some of the early entries, while admirably kept and well preserved, are exceedingly hard to decipher, owing to the unusual spellings (often greatly varied) of the proper names. 2. Website http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kindred/BRar1699.txt accessed 18 May 2013. Title: R D C: First Reformed Church, Raritan (Somerville) Baptisms 1699-1745. Author: Somerset County Historical Quarterly Publication: Vol. II, 1913, pgs. 38, 138, 209, and 298. Translated and compared with original records: 17 Sep 1738 Coessaerd, Daved & Cataleyntye; Daved. MARRIAGE: 1. Date and place estimated based on the oldest son David Corsaut chr. 14 Apr 1771 Readington, Hunterdon, New Jersey; death: 1814 in Canada. Information on this son per Worldconnect database "rcossart" (Ray at RNCossart@aol.com) accessed 18 May 2013. David moved to Canada in 1801 and his descendants changed the spelling to Corsaut. He was reportedly killed by Indians while he was working in his field, but other sources say otherwise. He could also be listed in the 1800 census in Cayuga Co., NY with three Childern, two sons under 10 and a daughter under 10. The name is spelled Cosart. Found in Aurelius on page 716. His brother could be James Cosart, found in the 1800 census in the same county. | Cosaadt, David (I1866)
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| 4786 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following baptismal records are found in the book "Compendium of Mohawk Valley Families," by Marily Penrose. Unfortunately none of the baptisms have sponsors' names so currently it is conjecture on my part that David, Cobus, Frans, Susanna are all siblings in the same generation. The source for the baptisms is given by the author as "DRC," which means church records of the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church. The entries appear to come from the same original church book meaning that these individuals with the same last name are geographically close. The location of the church is Caughnawaga, now the Reformed Church of Fonda, in the village of Fonda, Montgomery County, N.Y. Book also contains one marriage entry for this surname: "Cosaadt, Frans m. Nancy Johnson, 6/20/1777 (DRC:161).The entries: A. Cosaadt, Cobus And Elizabeth (Seedam): Neyltje, b. 4/4/1776, bapt. 4/24/1776 (DRC:37); Peter, b. 1777, bapt. 4/15/1777 (DRC:42); Cobus, bapt. 2/19/1786 at age 2 months (DRC:76, 77). B. David: a. David Cosaadt and Jannetje (Stimish): Jacobus, b. 11/27/1774, bapt. 1/27/1775 (DRC:32); Cataluntje, b. 11/25/1779, bapt. 1/23/1780 (DRC:54). b. David Cosnat and Janneche (Stumerse) [assumed by author and myself to be the same two individuals as above]: Benjamin, b. 12/24/1772; bapt. 3/31/1773 (DRC:24). C. Cosaadt, Frans and Nancy (Johnson): Catrina, b. 3/8/1778; bapt. 5/10/1778 (DRC:47). 2. The following is from family researcher Kathy Mansfield by email dated 20 Sep 2015 Also known as James Cassort and Elizabeth Suydam. Both are buried in Sand Hill Cemetery in Canandaigua, NY, where there are many Cosadts (with various spellings) buried.. Other versions of the names include: - Jacobus or James Cassort, Cosort, or Cosaadt. [Note that in German, Jacob means James.] - Elizabeth Suydam, Seedam, or Sedam. Kathy is trying to place her ancestor Catherine Cosadt who married John DeBow. She believes her to possibly be a daughter of James and Elizabeth. John DeBow is from Cranbury, Middlesex County, New Jersey. He said in his affidavit that he left New Jersey and went up to Charleston, NY in the Mohawk Valley. The family I have for Jacobus and Elizabeth has large gaps for more children which Kathy believes might be filled as follows: Catharine-1770/1771, Anthony-1772, Heindrich "Henry"-1773, Neyltje-1776, Peter -1777, Susan-1781, James-1785, Eleanor-1786, David-1789 and Charles-1792. That would give the 6 boys (found to date) and 4 girls (found to date). James tombstone has an age problem. Based on his age, he would have been born in 1748 but I guess that's in the margin of error. It's the Elizabeth Suydam headstone that makes it likely that this is James aka Jacobus. The other James Cassort in Canandaigua has a tombstone in Sand Hill as "James Cassort Jr." -- he was only 43 when he died. The tombstones for this couple read as follows: - James Cassort died April 6, 1821 aged 73 years. - Elizabeth Suydam wife of James Cassort died Sept. 25, 1836 aged 83 years. Kathy notes: "Catharine Cassort and John DeBow were married at Ft. Hunter, NY in the Mohawk Valley in 1790 but there is no proof of that other than some affidavits that Catharine DeBow made trying to receive John DeBow's pension back in the 1830s and 1840s. One of her witnesses was a Susan Warner who turned out to be Susan Cassort Warner and another witness was a David Cassort. I'm thinking Susan and David were Catharine's sister and brother." Ansel DeBow was moved in 1910 by his daughter to Woodlawn Cemetery. I was able to see two DeBow bibles and there was a notation in one of the bibles that mentioned it. I had always wondered why all the other DeBows and Cassorts of that era were buried in Sand Hill but Ansel wasn't. Thank you again for taking the time to answer my email. I have been in this blind alley searching for more information on Catharine Cassort for a while now and when I found your information it was so exciting. How wonderful to be in England doing research. I am a huge Angliophile. Love British things. We even have Digestive Biscuits with our tea! An English friend introduce me to them years ago. If I find out anything more about Elizabeth Suydam or James Cassort, I will let you know. BIRTH: 1. Date and place estimated assuming average marriage age of 21 for males and 18 for females with first child born one year after marriage. MARRIAGE: 1. Date and place estimated assuming average marriage age of 21 for males and 18 for females with first child born one year after marriage. ACTION: 1. I did not research this surname during my visit to the Montgomery County Archives Sep. 2007. Need to research. | Suydam, Elizabeth (I1025)
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| 4787 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following baptismal records are found in the book "Compendium of Mohawk Valley Families," by Marily Penrose. Unfortunately none of the baptisms have sponsors' names so currently it is conjecture on my part that David, Cobus, Frans, Susanna are all siblings in the same generation. The source for the baptisms is given by the author as "DRC," which means church records of the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church. The entries appear to come from the same original church book meaning that these individuals with the same last name are geographically close. The location of the church is Caughnawaga, now the Reformed Church of Fonda, in the village of Fonda, Montgomery County, N.Y. Book also contains one marriage entry for this surname: "Cosaadt, Frans m. Nancy Johnson, 6/20/1777 (DRC:161).The entries: A. Cosaadt, Cobus And Elizabeth (Seedam): Neyltje, b. 4/4/1776, bapt. 4/24/1776 (DRC:37); Peter, b. 1777, bapt. 4/15/1777 (DRC:42); Cobus, bapt. 2/19/1786 at age 2 months (DRC:76, 77). B. David: a. David Cosaadt and Jannetje (Stimish): Jacobus, b. 11/27/1774, bapt. 1/27/1775 (DRC:32); Cataluntje, b. 11/25/1779, bapt. 1/23/1780 (DRC:54). b. David Cosnat and Janneche (Stumerse) [assumed by author and myself to be the same two individuals as above]: Benjamin, b. 12/24/1772; bapt. 3/31/1773 (DRC:24). C. Cosaadt, Frans and Nancy (Johnson): Catrina, b. 3/8/1778; bapt. 5/10/1778 (DRC:47). 2. Variant name spellings include Cosaadt, Cossadt, Cassadt, Cosaardt, Coesaert, Cosart, Cossart, Cosaad, Cressart, Gresaart, Gressaadt, or Cosnat. 3. Quote from Worldconnect database "rcossart" (Ray at RNCossart@aol.com) accessed 18 May 2013 concerning this individual's father: "[David Sr.'s] father's will showed him receiving a one hundred acre tract of land in the vicinity of Bound Brook, NJ. All of his children were baptized at the Raritan Church indicated that he lived somewhere in that location. David seems to have been the last of his father's four sons to remain in Somerset Co., NJ. George, the eldest, returned to New York City. Jacob died before the father and Francis, the youngest, left for the Connewgo Valley of York Co., PA. David removed with his family to the Mohawk Valley in New York just before the Revolutionary War. This David line is the only one in America that still uses the original French name of "Cossart." He settled south-west from Albany, NY. His three sons: David, Jacob, and Francis served in the American Revolutionary War. David and Catherine both were members of the Dutch Reformed Church at Sommerville, Somerset Co., NJ." 4. The following is from family researcher Kathy Mansfield by email dated 20 Sep 2015 Also known as James Cassort and Elizabeth Suydam. Both are buried in Sand Hill Cemetery in Canandaigua, NY, where there are many Cosadts (with various spellings) buried.. Other versions of the names include: - Jacobus or James Cassort, Cosort, or Cosaadt. [Note that in German, Jacob means James.] - Elizabeth Suydam, Seedam, or Sedam. Kathy is trying to place her ancestor Catherine Cosadt who married John DeBow. She believes her to possibly be a daughter of James and Elizabeth. John DeBow is from Cranbury, Middlesex County, New Jersey. He said in his affidavit that he left New Jersey and went up to Charleston, NY in the Mohawk Valley. The family I have for Jacobus and Elizabeth has large gaps for more children which Kathy believes might be filled as follows: Catharine-1770/1771, Anthony-1772, Heindrich "Henry"-1773, Neyltje-1776, Peter -1777, Susan-1781, James-1785, Eleanor-1786, David-1789 and Charles-1792. That would give the 6 boys (found to date) and 4 girls (found to date). James tombstone has an age problem. Based on his age, he would have been born in 1748 but I guess that's in the margin of error. It's the Elizabeth Suydam headstone that makes it likely that this is James aka Jacobus. The other James Cassort in Canandaigua has a tombstone in Sand Hill as "James Cassort Jr." -- he was only 43 when he died. The tombstones for this couple read as follows: - James Cassort died April 6, 1821 aged 73 years. - Elizabeth Suydam wife of James Cassort died Sept. 25, 1836 aged 83 years. Kathy notes: "Catharine Cassort and John DeBow were married at Ft. Hunter, NY in the Mohawk Valley in 1790 but there is no proof of that other than some affidavits that Catharine DeBow made trying to receive John DeBow's pension back in the 1830s and 1840s. One of her witnesses was a Susan Warner who turned out to be Susan Cassort Warner and another witness was a David Cassort. I'm thinking Susan and David were Catharine's sister and brother." CHRISTENING: 1. Website http://raub-and-more.com/raritanbap/07.html accessed 18 May 2013. "Baptisms Reformed Church Raritan (Somerville), NJ, March 8, 1699 -June 28, 1829" from the collection of the late Beulah Gangaware (circa 1930s), p. 32. Entry: 6 Oct 1745 Coesaert, Davit & Catelyntie; Jacobus; no sponsors listed. The earliest known ecclesiastical organization in Somerset County was that of the First Reformed Church of Raritan (now Somerville), originally known as the Reformed Dutch Church of Raritan. It was organized March 9, 1699. The church baptismal records are preserved from the beginning, the first three baptisms recorded being March 8, 1699, made, no doubt, by Rev. Guiliam Bertholf, of Hackensack, in whose presence, next day, the first elder and first deacon of the Raritan church were installed. Bertholf probably supplied the organization with preaching until 1717. The next known minister to officiate was the Rev. Theodorus Jacobus Frelinghuysen, who was called from Holland and arrived in 1720, becoming pastor of the four churches of Raritan, Three-Mile Run, Six-Mile Run and North Branch (Readington). June 9, 1749 Rev. Dr. Messler. The baptisms were written out in the Dutch language until 1720, when English, with some Dutch intermixed, was substituted. Some of the early entries, while admirably kept and well preserved, are exceedingly hard to decipher, owing to the unusual spellings (often greatly varied) of the proper names. | Cosaadt, Jacobus (I1024)
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| 4788 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following baptismal records are found in the book "Compendium of Mohawk Valley Families," by Marily Penrose. Unfortunately none of the baptisms have sponsors' names so currently it is conjecture on my part that David, Cobus, Frans, Susanna are all siblings in the same generation. The source for the baptisms is given by the author as "DRC," which means church records of the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church. The entries appear to come from the same original church book meaning that these individuals with the same last name are geographically close. The location of the church is Caughnawaga, now the Reformed Church of Fonda, in the village of Fonda, Montgomery County, N.Y. Book also contains one marriage entry for this surname: "Cosaadt, Frans m. Nancy Johnson, 6/20/1777 (DRC:161).The entries: A. Cosaadt, Cobus And Elizabeth (Seedam): Neyltje, b. 4/4/1776, bapt. 4/24/1776 (DRC:37); Peter, b. 1777, bapt. 4/15/1777 (DRC:42); Cobus, bapt. 2/19/1786 at age 2 months (DRC:76, 77). B. David: a. David Cosaadt and Jannetje (Stimish): Jacobus, b. 11/27/1774, bapt. 1/27/1775 (DRC:32); Cataluntje, b. 11/25/1779, bapt. 1/23/1780 (DRC:54). b. David Cosnat and Janneche (Stumerse) [assumed by author and myself to be the same two individuals as above]: Benjamin, b. 12/24/1772; bapt. 3/31/1773 (DRC:24). C. Cosaadt, Frans and Nancy (Johnson): Catrina, b. 3/8/1778; bapt. 5/10/1778 (DRC:47). BIRTH: 1. Date and place estimated assuming average marriage age of 21 for males and 18 for females with first child born one year after marriage. MARRIAGE: 1. Date and place estimated assuming average marriage age of 21 for males and 18 for females with first child born one year after marriage. ACTION: 1. I did not research this surname during my visit to the Montgomery County Archives Sep. 2007. Need to research. | Stimish or Stumerse, Jannetje or Janneche (I1018)
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| 4789 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following burial record establishes the wife of our George being name "Jane." Since there were only two Georges in Fourstones, father and son, and since George the younger was married to Mary Turnbull, this record establishes the name of George the senior's wife as Jane. From the parish records of Warden, of which Newbrough Chapelry is subservient and very nearby, per FHL film 1068615, (note that this Parish was never fully extracted by LDS IGI for the mid to late 1700s and so the following information is not readily seen); see George's notes for my full extraction of which the following single entry is from the burials of 1724 to 1819: -30 Nov 1791, Jane, dau. of George and Jane Charleton of Fourstones. I believe another key is the name of George's and Jane's son Foster. In searching the various nearby parishes for marriages of George Charlton to any Jane circa 1760-1764, there is only one that fits the criteria and that is Jane Foster per the marriage reported below. I do have two reservations: (1) that she would have been perhaps about 31 when she married and she continued having children until age 52, which seems a little long; and (2) I am not sure what the relationship if any is with a Michael Charlton who witnessed the marriage since I don't find any Michaels in our database unless he was a cousin. On the other hand, the Jane Charlton who died in 1819 may not be the same Jane Foster. Until something better comes up, I believe this is probably the best choice. 2. FHL film 2193232, Warden Parish Overseers books showing payments to the poor: -There is a Margaret Charleton receiving payments for several years from about the 1780s to 1820. [No relationship to our family that I can find.] -There is a Sarah Charleton receiving payments from 25 May-25 Jun 1804. This is about the time George died. [I am not sure who this is.] -There is a George receiving misc. payments "when ill" for what looks to be 1804 (the entry above his) even though it is in the section of May 1805-May 1806. [Probably George senior.] -There is a Jane Charleton receiving a year's worth of payments beginning about 1810 and continuing to about 1819. [Probably Jane, wife of George, who dies in 1819 when the poor donations ceased.] -There is a George Charleton with children receiving some payments in about 1817-1819. [Probably George, son of George.] BIRTH: 1. See age at time of death in burial record below. CHRISTENING: 1. The following is a search of the various parish christening records for Mary Foster/Forster chr. 1725 to 1745. The first part is for all of Northumberland assuming the father is Edward, which name we see in the marriage record as a witness (he may not be the father). The second is a parish by parish search within a 3-4 parish deep radius. A. Father as Edward: -27 Dec 1727, Jane, dau. of Edward Forster, Newbrough chapelry. B. Encircling extracted IGI batch search giving too many results to determine our Jane Foster.: -No entries for the following parishes: Bellingham, Simonburn, or Warden (done with film). -14 Oct 1725, Jane, dau. of Richard Foster, Newburn parish. -2 Jun 1726, Jane, dau. of John and Jane Forster, Heddon On The Wall parish. -23 Jan 1726, Jane, dau. of Thomas Foster, Haydon Bridge chapelry. -1727, Jane, Wm. and Margery Forster, Corsenside parish. -13 Apr 1729, Jane, dau. of Thomas Foster, Lee Saint John parish. -21 Mar 1731, Jane, dau. of Thomas Foster, Haydon Bridge chapelry. -30 May 1731, Jane, dau. of Wm. and Barbara Foster, Haltwhistle parish. -4 Apr 1732, Jane, dau. of Henry Forster, Ovingham parish. -12 Jan 1733, Jane, dau. of John Forster, Newbrough parish. -24 Jun 1733, Jane, dau. of John Forster, Newburn parish. -31 Aug 1733, Jane, dau. of J. Foster, Stamfordham parish. -26 Sep 1734, Jane, dau. of Richard Foster, Haydon Bridge chapelry. -30 Dec 1734, Jane, dau. of William Forster, Corsenside parish. -21 Mar 1738, Jane, dau. of George Forster, Hartburn parish. -11 Jul 1742, Jane, dau. of William Foster, Haydon Bridge parish. -17 Feb 1743, Jane, dau. of Thomas Foster, Ovingham parish. -11 Jun 1743, Jane, dau. of John Forster, Hexham parish. MARRIAGE: 1. FHL film 1068897 of the parish records of Lee St. John: "George Charleton and Jane Foster both of the Chapelry of St. Oswald were married in this Church by publication this 20 Jun 1762 by me Alex'r Stokoe, Curate of St. John Lee. This marriage was solemnized between George Charlton and Jane Foster in the presence of us, [signed] Edward Forster and Michael Charlton." BURIAL: 1. Even though not 100% proven, I believe the following burial record is for this Jane. See husband George's notes for full transcription of all burials and the following Jane is the only one that works in my opinion. I believe that she was probably living with a relative in Newcastle when she died and there would be no other reason to be buried in Warden, which is some distance from Newcastle, unless she was being buried with a previously deceased husband. From the parish records of Warden, of which Newbrough Chapelry is subservient and very nearby, per FHL film 1068615, (note that this Parish was never fully extracted by LDS IGI for the mid to late 1700s and so the following information is not readily seen); see George's notes for my full extraction of which the following single entry is from the burials of 1724 to 1819: -18 Nov 1819, Jane Charleton, 86 years old, residing at Newcastle upon Tyne. | Foster, Jane (I4678)
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| 4790 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following census entry may be this Samuel: 1841 Eng: Westham, Sussex, p. 10 of 18: Samuel Daw, 58, ag. lab., b. in this county. (Living alone.) CHRISTENING: 1. Online Ordinance Index Extracted christening record for Westham, Sussex County, England; batch CO42861 - includes parents as Thomas Daw and Mary. Shows birth of 4 Apr 1783. 2. Email from Val Bray [mailto:valjoy.bray@yahoo.com.au], Aug 22, 2006: My information from Folkington, Sussex (very close to Arlington) came from FHL film 1364154, and the Sussex Marriages Index (a CD issued by the Sussex Family History Group from parish registers). Con (bapt. 5 Jun 1774) married Sarah Coleman (bapt. 13 Apr 1774 buried; 2 Jul 1806) and Dinah Daw (bapt.13 Apr 1775 Westham). Her father was Thomas Daw, mother Mary Hilton (buried 2 Oct 1783). They married on 17 Oct 1768 and their children were Mary bapt. 9 Apr 1769, Sarah 20 May 1770, Jane 29 Dec 1771, Thomas 24 Mar 1773, Dinah 13 Apr 1775, William 8 Feb 1777, James 3 Sep 1779, Samuel 4 Apr 1783. [Kerry's note: Note date variance; I assume the earlier date is birth.] | Daw, Samuel (I488)
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| 4791 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following censuses are most likely for this James Daw: 1841 Eng: Westham, Sussex, p. 2 of 16: James Daw, 60, ag. lab., b. in county. Ruth Daw, 20, b. in county. Esram Daw, 1, b. in county. 1851 Eng: Westham, Sussex, p. 16 of 27, #60, res: Hankham H.: Henry Boney, 37, Ag. Lab., b. Sussex, Hellingly. Ruth Boney, wife, 48, b. in Sussex, Hailsham. Henry Walter, son, unm., 18, ag. lab., b. in Sussex, Westham. James Daw, mar., 71, ag. lab., b. in Sussex, Westham. CHRISTENING: 1. Online Ordinance Index. Extracted christening record for Westham, Sussex County, England; batch CO42861 -- includes parents as Thomas Daw and Mary. Birth shown as 3 Sep 1779. 2. Email from Val Bray [mailto:valjoy.bray@yahoo.com.au], Aug 22, 2006: My information from Folkington, Sussex (very close to Arlington) came from FHL film 1364154, and the Sussex Marriages Index (a CD issued by the Sussex Family History Group from parish registers). Con (bapt. 5 Jun 1774) married Sarah Coleman (bapt. 13 Apr 1774 buried; 2 Jul 1806) and Dinah Daw (bapt.13 Apr 1775 Westham). Her father was Thomas Daw, mother Mary Hilton (buried 2 Oct 1783). They married on 17 Oct 1768 and their children were Mary bapt. 9 Apr 1769, Sarah 20 May 1770, Jane 29 Dec 1771, Thomas 24 Mar 1773, Dinah 13 Apr 1775, William 8 Feb 1777, James 3 Sep 1779, Samuel 4 Apr 1783. [Kerry's note: Note date variance; I assume the earlier date is birth.] MARRIAGE: 1. Online Ordinance Index Extracted Marriage record for Westham, Sussex County, England; batch MO42861. Separate entry at Ancestry.com's "Pallot's Marriage Index for England: 1780-1837" notes the same marriage but indicates it is at Withyham, Sussex. DEATH: 1. Ancestry.com's "England and Wales, Free BMD Death Index, 1837-1983" reports a death in first quarter of 1853 for Samuel Daw in the Eastbourne district of Sussex. Westham is part of this district. No age is given, but the certificate can be ordered from vol. 2b, p. 37. Family Tree accessed 19 May 2013 shows death 15 Feb 1853 in Westham, Sussex, England. | Daw, James (I489)
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| 4792 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following extraction was made from the "Index to the Kent Lay Subsidy Roll of 1334/5," by H.A. Hanley, B.A. and C.W. Chalklin, M.A., B. Litt From this index, the actual entries are found in "The Kent Lay Subsidy Roll of 1334/5," by the same authors Austin, Austyn, Alic', 123 (Hundred of Brenchesle [Brenchley]); Alic' de Rysshebourne, 86 (Hundred of Westgate); Godeleva, 115 (Hundred of Lauerkefeld [Larkfield]); Jn., 86 (Hundred of Westgate), 142 (Vill of Dertford [Dartford]), 151 (Hundred of Loniberghe [Loningborough]); Juliana, 154 (Hundred of Hamme [Ham]); Phil., 162 (Bordenne in Middeltone [Borden in Milton]: Tenth); Rog., 132 (Hundred of Schamele [Shamwell]); Sim., 107 (Hundred of Tenterdenne [Tenterden]); Wm., 82 (Hundred of Eastri [Eastry]), 95 (Hundred of Longhebregge [Longbridge]). 2. Https://assets.cambridge.org/97811070/39278/excerpt/9781107039278_excerpt.pdf, retrieved 29 Jul 2023. It is a synopsis from a book printed in 2013: "A Chronology of Jane Austen and her Family," by Dierdre Le Faye Prologue A summary of Jane Austen’s direct ancestry AUSTEN family The Austens or Austins were sheep-farmers and clothiers in the Weald of Kent. In 1574 the College of Arms allowed the Astyn family at Yalding to bear the coat-of-arms of: Argent on a chevron between three lions’ gambs erased sable three bezants; other Austen families bear similar arms, including the crest: On a mural crown or, a stag sejant, argent attired or. Jane Austen’s paternal ancestry can be traced back with reasonable certainty to the sixteenth century, as under: (1) William astyn of Yalding, Kent (died 1522), and his wife Elizabeth, had three sons. (2) William’s eldest son, Stephen astyn of Yalding (died post 1532), married twice, and had in all seven sons and four daughters. (3) Stephen’s eldest son by his second wife, Robert, is probably identifiable with Robert austen of Horsmonden, Kent (died 1603); this Robert and his wife Elizabeth had three sons and four daughters. (4) Robert’s eldest son is probably identifiable with John Austen Ⅰ of Horsmonden (1560–1620/1); this John and his wife Joan Berry had eight sons and one daughter. (5) John Ⅰ’s fifth son, Francis austen Ⅰ of Horsmonden (1600–1687/8), and his wife Ellen, had one son and two daughters. Francis acquired the manors of Broadford and Grovehurst, in Horsmonden parish. (6) Francis Ⅰ’s son John austen Ⅲ of Grovehurst, Horsmonden (1629–1705), and his wife Jane Atkins, had two sons and three daughters." | Austen (I5197)
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| 4793 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following family appears in the Hunstanworth Parish (1659-1760) Register (birth, marr., and burials) and is most likely a brother to Isaac Burnhope even though no specific relationship is indicated except just being the same age in the same parish with exactly the same spelling of surname. It may also be significant that Ramshaw is at the end of Mill Road as described below since our Isaac also a miller later at Woodhall Mill near Haydon Bridge where he dies in 1789. Newbigginhope is less than a mile northwest of Hunstanworth. Except for the christenings of the three children of Isaac, the following are the only other Burnhopes in the Registers. I have also since confirmed the entries with the church records on FHL film 1068651. Ramshay/Ramsby is probably the small property called Ramshaw on older maps or very good modern maps; it can be located on by going straight south just a little over a mile from Hunstanworth through the farmstead Townfield. The main road ends at the tip of the V created where Mill Road intersects the road south. On Google maps, this appears to be nothing more than a farmstead. The notations in [brackets] are my estimation of family grouping and the way I have arranged them in New Family Search 3 Aug 2009: Marr. 3 May 1747, Wm. Burnhope and Jane Short. [Probable parents of the next four children.] Bapt. 14 Jan 1747/1748, John Burnhope, son of William of Ramshay. Bapt. 29 Jul 1750, William Burnhope, son of William of Ramshay. Bapt. 29 Oct 1752, George Burnhope, son of William. Bur. 8 Sep 1755, Jane Burnhope, wife of William of Ramshy. [Probably Jane Short since no more entries for children occur. Judging from year, she may have died in childbirth.] | Burnhope, John (I4686)
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| 4794 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following family appears in the Hunstanworth Parish (1659-1760) Register (birth, marr., and burials) and is most likely a brother to Isaac Burnhope even though no specific relationship is indicated except just being the same age in the same parish with exactly the same spelling of surname. It may also be significant that Ramshaw is at the end of Mill Road as described below since our Isaac also a miller later at Woodhall Mill near Haydon Bridge where he dies in 1789. Newbigginhope is less than a mile northwest of Hunstanworth. Except for the christenings of the three children of Isaac, the following are the only other Burnhopes in the Registers. I have also since confirmed the entries with the church records on FHL film 1068651. Ramshay/Ramsby is probably the small property called Ramshaw on older maps or very good modern maps; it can be located on by going straight south just a little over a mile from Hunstanworth through the farmstead Townfield. The main road ends at the tip of the V created where Mill Road intersects the road south. On Google maps, this appears to be nothing more than a farmstead. The notations in [brackets] are my estimation of family grouping and the way I have arranged them in New Family Search 3 Aug 2009: Marr. 3 May 1747, Wm. Burnhope and Jane Short. [Probable parents of the next four children.] Bapt. 14 Jan 1747/1748, John Burnhope, son of William of Ramshay. Bapt. 29 Jul 1750, William Burnhope, son of William of Ramshay. Bapt. 29 Oct 1752, George Burnhope, son of William. Bur. 8 Sep 1755, Jane Burnhope, wife of William of Ramshy. [Probably Jane Short since no more entries for children occur. Judging from year, she may have died in childbirth.] | Burnhope, George (I4684)
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| 4795 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following family appears in the Hunstanworth Parish (1659-1760) Register (birth, marr., and burials) and is most likely a brother to Isaac Burnhope even though no specific relationship is indicated except just being the same age in the same parish with exactly the same spelling of surname. It may also be significant that Ramshaw is at the end of Mill Road as described below since our Isaac also a miller later at Woodhall Mill near Haydon Bridge where he dies in 1789. Newbigginhope is less than a mile northwest of Hunstanworth. Except for the christenings of the three children of Isaac, the following are the only other Burnhopes in the Registers. I have also since confirmed the entries with the church records on FHL film 1068651. Ramshay/Ramsby is probably the small property called Ramshaw on older maps or very good modern maps; it can be located on by going straight south just a little over a mile from Hunstanworth through the farmstead Townfield. The main road ends at the tip of the V created where Mill Road intersects the road south. On Google maps, this appears to be nothing more than a farmstead. The notations in [brackets] are my estimation of family grouping and the way I have arranged them in New Family Search 3 Aug 2009: Marr. 3 May 1747, Wm. Burnhope and Jane Short. [Probable parents of the next four children.] Bapt. 14 Jan 1747/1748, John Burnhope, son of William of Ramshay. Bapt. 29 Jul 1750, William Burnhope, son of William of Ramshay. Bapt. 29 Oct 1752, George Burnhope, son of William. Bur. 8 Sep 1755, Jane Burnhope, wife of William of Ramshy. [Probably Jane Short since no more entries for children occur. Judging from year, she may have died in childbirth.] | Burnhope, William (I4683)
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| 4796 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following family appears in the Hunstanworth Parish (1659-1760) Register (birth, marr., and burials) and is most likely a brother to Isaac Burnhope even though no specific relationship is indicated except just being the same age in the same parish with exactly the same spelling of surname. It may also be significant that Ramshaw is at the end of Mill Road as described below since our Isaac also a miller later at Woodhall Mill near Haydon Bridge where he dies in 1789. Newbigginhope is less than a mile northwest of Hunstanworth. Except for the christenings of the three children of Isaac, the following are the only other Burnhopes in the Registers. I have also since confirmed the entries with the church records on FHL film 1068651. Ramshay/Ramsby is probably the small property called Ramshaw on older maps or very good modern maps; it can be located on by going straight south just a little over a mile from Hunstanworth through the farmstead Townfield. The main road ends at the tip of the V created where Mill Road intersects the road south. On Google maps, this appears to be nothing more than a farmstead. The notations in [brackets] are my estimation of family grouping and the way I have arranged them in New Family Search 3 Aug 2009: Marr. 3 May 1747, Wm. Burnhope and Jane Short. [Probable parents of the next four children.] Bapt. 14 Jan 1747/1748, John Burnhope, son of William of Ramshay. Bapt. 29 Jul 1750, William Burnhope, son of William of Ramshay. Bapt. 29 Oct 1752, George Burnhope, son of William. Bur. 8 Sep 1755, Jane Burnhope, wife of William of Ramshy. [Probably Jane Short since no more entries for children occur. Judging from year, she may have died in childbirth.] | Short, Jane (I4682)
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| 4797 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following family appears in the Hunstanworth Parish (1659-1760) Register (birth, marr., and burials) and is most likely a brother to Isaac Burnhope even though no specific relationship is indicated except just being the same age in the same parish with exactly the same spelling of surname. It may also be significant that Ramshaw is at the end of Mill Road as described below since our Isaac also a miller later at Woodhall Mill near Haydon Bridge where he dies in 1789. Newbigginhope is less than a mile northwest of Hunstanworth. Except for the christenings of the three children of Isaac, the following are the only other Burnhopes in the Registers. I have also since confirmed the entries with the church records on FHL film 1068651. Ramshay/Ramsby is probably the small property called Ramshaw on older maps or very good modern maps; it can be located on by going straight south just a little over a mile from Hunstanworth through the farmstead Townfield. The main road ends at the tip of the V created where Mill Road intersects the road south. On Google maps, this appears to be nothing more than a farmstead. The notations in [brackets] are my estimation of family grouping and the way I have arranged them in New Family Search 3 Aug 2009: Marr. 3 May 1747, Wm. Burnhope and Jane Short. [Probable parents of the next four children.] Bapt. 14 Jan 1747/1748, John Burnhope, son of William of Ramshay. Bapt. 29 Jul 1750, William Burnhope, son of William of Ramshay. Bapt. 29 Oct 1752, George Burnhope, son of William. Bur. 8 Sep 1755, Jane Burnhope, wife of William of Ramshy. [Probably Jane Short since no more entries for children occur. Judging from year, she may have died in childbirth.] | Burnhope, William (I4674)
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| 4798 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following genealogical summary of the family of James Adair was provided to me from Shawn Potter "James Adair was born probably in Ireland say about 1714. He immigrated to America before 1735. James married Eleanor of the Chickasaw Nation in about 1744. Eleanor was born in the Chickasaw Nation say about 1726. She was a member of the Panther clan. James died probably in Laurens County, South Carolina, after 25 Feb 1784 and before 12 Feb 1796. Eleanor died probably in Laurens County after 3 Jan 1803. James and Eleanor were the parents of the following children: 1. James Adair, Jr., was born in the Chickasaw Nation say about 1748. He married Hannah probably in Laurens County say about 1772. Hannah was born probably in Laurens County on 28 Sep 1750. James died in Laurens County on 18 Aug 1818. Hannah died in Laurens County on 10 Nov 1826. 2. Joseph Adair was born in the Chickasaw Nation say about 1750. He married Sarah probably in Laurens County say about 1776. Joseph died perhaps in Laurens County after 5 Feb 1804. 3. John Adair was born in the Chickasaw Nation say about 1754. He married first Ga-Ho-Ga of the Cherokee Nation probably in Laurens County say about 1780. Ga-Ho-Ga was born in the Cherokee Nation say about 1760. Ga-Ho-Ga died perhaps in Laurens County after 7 Feb 1789. John married second Jane Kilgore probably in Laurens County say about 1790. Jane was born probably in Laurens County say about 1773. John died in present-day Oconee County, South Carolina, after 4 Nov 1815 and before 4 Dec 1815. Jane died perhaps in present-day Oconee County after 4 Dec 1815. 4. Edward Adair was born in the Chickasaw Nation say about 1756. He married first Margaret in Philadelphia on 7 Apr 1784. Edward married second Elizabeth Martin of the Cherokee Nation probably in the Cherokee Nation say about 1789. Elizabeth was born probably in the Cherokee Nation say about 1769. Edward died probably in present-day Oconee County after 3 Nov 1800. Elizabeth died probably in the Cherokee Nation after 13 Jul 1816. N.B. James and Eleanor had "children" in 1748; and a daughter lived in Georgia between 1788 and 1791." 2. From Shawn Potter 6 Sep 2015 -- I asked him the source of the maiden name Elizabeth Martin. He responded with the following: Source 1: "Annie Walker Burns, "Military and Genealogical Records of the Famous Indian Woman: Nancy Ward," (Washington, D.C.: Published by the Author, P.O. Box 6183, Apex Station, 1957), 1-40. Edward Adair married a maternal-line granddaughter of ᎾᏅᏰᎯ (A-Gi-Gau) Nancy Ward (c. 1722-1822), Beloved Woman of the Cherokee Nation. Nancy's mother was a sister of Attakullakulla (c.1708-1778), First Beloved Man - Principal Chief - of the Cherokee Nation from about 1761 to 1777. When Nancy's first husband, Kingfisher, was killed in battle at Taliwa in 1755, she picked up his weapon and fought in his place. The Cherokee named her Beloved Woman in recognition of her courage and devotion to her people. After her husband's death, Nancy married Irish deerskin trader Bryan Ward. Their daughter, ᎪᏌᎢᏍᎦ (Go-Sa-I-S-Ga) Betty Ward, married Irish deerskin trader Joseph Martin. Their daughter, Elizabeth Martin, married Edward Adair." Source 2: "Emmett Starr, "History of the Cherokee Indians," (Oklahoma City, OK: Warden Co., 1922), 419. Elizabeth previously married James Vann, William Sparingston, and John Shepherd. Shawn comments on these two sources as follows: "Starr is consider to be a reliable source, but not as complete as one would like sometimes. From memory, I don't think Starr lists Elizabeth's parents, for example. But it seems to be accepted among Cherokee historians that Elizabeth was descended from Nancy Ward. Burns lists Elizabeth's descent from Nancy Ward. Burns is not so well known, so I can't speak about her reliability for certain, but her information seems to make sense. In regards to her later surname of Scott, Shawn responds as follows: "Edward was administrator of Walter Scott's estate. So some have speculated that Elizabeth either was Walter's daughter or widow. After Edward's death, Elizabeth applied for the pension of her son James Adair, who was killed in the war of 1812. She called herself in that pension Elizabeth Scott. This is all very confusing. Since we know Edward was married to Margaret during the time frame when Walter Scott Adair, son of Elizabeth, was born, we suspect Edward didn't divorce Margaret and did not marry Elizabeth in a church wedding. If Elizabeth had yet another husband, Walter Scott, and she kept his surname, at least after Edward died, this all makes sense. But we are not sure about Elizabeth's other marriages before or after Edward. | Martin, Elizabeth (I5046)
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| 4799 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following genealogical summary of the family of James Adair was provided to me from Shawn Potter "James Adair was born probably in Ireland say about 1714. He immigrated to America before 1735. James married Eleanor of the Chickasaw Nation in about 1744. Eleanor was born in the Chickasaw Nation say about 1726. She was a member of the Panther clan. James died probably in Laurens County, South Carolina, after 25 Feb 1784 and before 12 Feb 1796. Eleanor died probably in Laurens County after 3 Jan 1803. James and Eleanor were the parents of the following children: 1. James Adair, Jr., was born in the Chickasaw Nation say about 1748. He married Hannah probably in Laurens County say about 1772. Hannah was born probably in Laurens County on 28 Sep 1750. James died in Laurens County on 18 Aug 1818. Hannah died in Laurens County on 10 Nov 1826. 2. Joseph Adair was born in the Chickasaw Nation say about 1750. He married Sarah probably in Laurens County say about 1776. Joseph died perhaps in Laurens County after 5 Feb 1804. 3. John Adair was born in the Chickasaw Nation say about 1754. He married first Ga-Ho-Ga of the Cherokee Nation probably in Laurens County say about 1780. Ga-Ho-Ga was born in the Cherokee Nation say about 1760. Ga-Ho-Ga died perhaps in Laurens County after 7 Feb 1789. John married second Jane Kilgore probably in Laurens County say about 1790. Jane was born probably in Laurens County say about 1773. John died in present-day Oconee County, South Carolina, after 4 Nov 1815 and before 4 Dec 1815. Jane died perhaps in present-day Oconee County after 4 Dec 1815. 4. Edward Adair was born in the Chickasaw Nation say about 1756. He married first Margaret in Philadelphia on 7 Apr 1784. Edward married second Elizabeth Martin of the Cherokee Nation probably in the Cherokee Nation say about 1789. Elizabeth was born probably in the Cherokee Nation say about 1769. Edward died probably in present-day Oconee County after 3 Nov 1800. Elizabeth died probably in the Cherokee Nation after 13 Jul 1816. N.B. James and Eleanor had "children" in 1748; and a daughter lived in Georgia between 1788 and 1791." | Kilgore, Jane (I5045)
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| 4800 | RESEARCH_NOTES: 1. The following genealogical summary of the family of James Adair was provided to me from Shawn Potter "James Adair was born probably in Ireland say about 1714. He immigrated to America before 1735. James married Eleanor of the Chickasaw Nation in about 1744. Eleanor was born in the Chickasaw Nation say about 1726. She was a member of the Panther clan. James died probably in Laurens County, South Carolina, after 25 Feb 1784 and before 12 Feb 1796. Eleanor died probably in Laurens County after 3 Jan 1803. James and Eleanor were the parents of the following children: 1. James Adair, Jr., was born in the Chickasaw Nation say about 1748. He married Hannah probably in Laurens County say about 1772. Hannah was born probably in Laurens County on 28 Sep 1750. James died in Laurens County on 18 Aug 1818. Hannah died in Laurens County on 10 Nov 1826. 2. Joseph Adair was born in the Chickasaw Nation say about 1750. He married Sarah probably in Laurens County say about 1776. Joseph died perhaps in Laurens County after 5 Feb 1804. 3. John Adair was born in the Chickasaw Nation say about 1754. He married first Ga-Ho-Ga of the Cherokee Nation probably in Laurens County say about 1780. Ga-Ho-Ga was born in the Cherokee Nation say about 1760. Ga-Ho-Ga died perhaps in Laurens County after 7 Feb 1789. John married second Jane Kilgore probably in Laurens County say about 1790. Jane was born probably in Laurens County say about 1773. John died in present-day Oconee County, South Carolina, after 4 Nov 1815 and before 4 Dec 1815. Jane died perhaps in present-day Oconee County after 4 Dec 1815. 4. Edward Adair was born in the Chickasaw Nation say about 1756. He married first Margaret in Philadelphia on 7 Apr 1784. Edward married second Elizabeth Martin of the Cherokee Nation probably in the Cherokee Nation say about 1789. Elizabeth was born probably in the Cherokee Nation say about 1769. Edward died probably in present-day Oconee County after 3 Nov 1800. Elizabeth died probably in the Cherokee Nation after 13 Jul 1816. N.B. James and Eleanor had "children" in 1748; and a daughter lived in Georgia between 1788 and 1791." MARRIAGE: 1. Assumed to be age 16 or older from time of estimated birth. | Lightfoot, Nancy Ga-Ho-Ga (I5044)
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